A grammar vs. independent dilemma

[Stressed?Moi?]

My problem with the "try it for a year" approach is that peer groups are harder to establish once everyone else is settled in. From my observations of those who've done it, to drop someone in at Year 8 can be tough for them, especially if they are on the shy side for example. A whole new routine, environment as well as people can be very daunting at the best of times. Just my opinion.

[Amber]

It isn't the case for me but I have to say that if my DS wasn't all that fussed about being with boys and didn't like rough and tumble, I wouldn't send him to a boys school. Pastoral is excellent at the schools from what I consistently read, but if he fundamentally won't thrive in that sort of environment and you have a choice, and you can afford private the decision seems easier. Their personality and where they will feel most comfortable I would say is more important than academic results. If they are relaxed, they will flourish anywhere. One of my DCs was at a grammar school and it went wrong, very wrong. As such, I would say, priority should be getting the right school for them as people.

I am really sorry that your child had such a bad experience; but I have to disagree slightly on the other point. Neither of my sons is or ever was a 'boy's boy' - they always had lots of female friends and didn't show interest in football, rugby or computer games - no X box or Play station here, ever, and no interest either. There has been no issue whatsoever with the male culture at STR and in fact in Y8 my son came home with a cookery book one of the staff had awarded him for his baking in cookery lessons. Bullying is dealt with in the best way I have ever come across anywhere and any kind of 'laddishness' is not tolerated at all.

I would, however, not have sent my DD to an all girls' school as I know that the special culture which prevails there would not have been helpful to her. So it does depend.


LN - don't be defeatist. If your attitude already is that it isn't going to work, then I will almost guarantee that it won't. What do you think a private school is going to offer that Crypt can't? Be very clear in your own mind that you are buying what you think you are here.

ETA - DS1 joined STR in Y8. There were definitely some teething troubles which is how I came into contact with the superb pastoral care. He left there totally on top of his game with excellent results and the biggest circle of lovely friends of both sexes, and one very happy boy.

[laurenceneville]

LN - don't be defeatist. If your attitude already is that it isn't going to work, then I will almost guarantee that it won't. What do you think a private school is going to offer that Crypt can't? Be very clear in your own mind that you are buying what you think you are here.

No, I'm definitely trying to avoid being defeatist! If we decide on the Crypt, it will be entering into with gusto and the message to DS will not be that it is a trial. I also know how lucky we are to have this choice: many parents do not.
With regards to what a private school is going to offer that Crypt can't, the answer is 'I'm not really sure'. Smallest class sizes for sure, which may make it harder to find suitable friends or may make it easier for trouble to be spotted early on.

[Stressed?Moi?]

I am really sorry that your child had such a bad experience; but I have to disagree slightly on the other point. Neither of my sons is or ever was a 'boy's boy' - they always had lots of female friends and didn't show interest in football, rugby or computer games - no X box or Play station here, ever, and no interest either. There has been no issue whatsoever with the male culture at STR and in fact in Y8 my son came home with a cookery book one of the staff had awarded him for his baking in cookery lessons. Bullying is dealt with in the best way I have ever come across anywhere and any kind of 'laddishness' is not tolerated at all.

I would, however, not have sent my DD to an all girls' school as I know that the special culture which prevails there would not have been helpful to her. So it does depend.


LN - don't be defeatist. If your attitude already is that it isn't going to work, then I will almost guarantee that it won't. What do you think a private school is going to offer that Crypt can't? Be very clear in your own mind that you are buying what you think you are here.

ETA - DS1 joined STR in Y8. There were definitely some teething troubles which is how I came into contact with the superb pastoral care. He left there totally on top of his game with excellent results and the biggest circle of lovely friends of both sexes, and one very happy boy.[/quote]
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Can't agree more about STRS Amber. My ds is having a ball there and I have nothing but the highest regard for it. Cookery is one of his favourite subjects (something I would never have imagined before)

My other dc had a terrible time at a different grammar school having endured the "special culture" you speak of.

Crypt does have the co-ed advantage if that is a preference for a boy. At this stage it will just be girls in one year (and the sixth form) so not really how I think of truly co-ed. In 2018 it will be a number of girls in a boys school for a couple more years. Independent school at this stage is what I would term as truly co-ed. Smaller class sizes are a real bonus.

Spot on what you say about being clear in your own mind. Making a choice to move your DC post-year 7 is the right decision for many (I moved my kids when they were in year 3 and 4 at primary) and is very often dictated by circumstance or they just are plain unhappy. To join a school thinking you'll see how it goes I would say is the wrong approach. When things get tough (as they inevitably do at senior school), the temptation to just move them instead of seeing it through, must be very great. The main disadvantage I found with private was that they were in a bit of a bubble and not mixing with the sort of kids they will be when they leave school (one child set fire to one of their £20 notes for a laugh!) It was all very nice, but I'm not sure it would have prepared them for real life as adults. That said, they were very happy. It's all horses for courses.

[smileandsparkle]

Now I'm intrigued - whats the 'special culture' you refer to? I went to an all girls grammar so I wonder if I'm just missing the point? Just being nosey! And also worried perhaps my DD might fall in the special culture come next September?

[Watermelon8]

Now I'm intrigued - whats the 'special culture' you refer to? I went to an all girls grammar so I wonder if I'm just missing the point? Just being nosey! And also worried perhaps my DD might fall in the special culture come next September?

I think you have to go with what feels right for your son. My DS loves Crypt & has plenty of quiet, conscientious, lovely friends plus is surrounded by clever boys who want to do well. We couldn't be more pleased with it.

In terms of 'special culture' at all girls?? DD is at Denmark & is thriving. V friendly & supportive sch. A slight issue in y7 which was nipped in the bud so quickly & efficiently I couldn't fault their pastoral care. All schools have their issues & if ever any school says they have no bullying then they are lying! It's human nature unfortunately & it's how the school deals with it that is important.

[kenyancowgirl]

Stressed?Moi? you comment that "smaller class sizes are a real bonus", but I have to query your evidence for that? Actually, all the research points to teh fact that class size makes no difference at all - certainly not on achievement (which if anything tends to be higher in bigger class sizes) and can, as Amber has alluded to, exacerbate any perceived issues as there are less "other children" to go to if there is a problem.

Whilst I agree that Crypt is not yet fully co-ed, having experienced a school that suddenly changed from being all boys to including girls (albeit in the 6th form), the transition years are some of the best, and the pastoral side is souped up for both genders. I would add that OP, going in with gusto and the idea that this is for the next 7 years, is the best way - you don't want your son to feed off any perceived insecurities from you and he may be feeling positive about going somewhere new. You say that finance is OK but not great - ie you could afford it but would make some sacrifices - he will notice these - and this may put additional pressure on him at an independnet, especially if he is feeling things arent going great. It is much easier to move from a GS to an independent than the other way round, for lots of reasons, one being that the pace of work can be behind in the indie, the other being space. I actually don't buy into that the friendship groups are all formed in Y7 - most decent schools move children around, either because they can or to do with options they take, but mainly to ensure that any poor behaviour/failing relationships can be managed by splitting people up, so this is the norm in Y8/9 anyway.

[loobylou]

I have been reading this thread with interest.
I think you have had some great advice. I think that, where one is concerned about possible friendship groups and finding like-minded individuals, it tends to be easier in larger settings than smaller. I have a friend whose 3 children are at indies, 2 of them at the same small all-girls indie. Her dd is now in year 11 and she was adamant that she couldn't have sent her to the local state alternative - now she wishes passionately that she had done so. This particular dd has struggled to find her niche and has ended up with difficult friendship groups because she has (literally) a choice of 12 other girls to be friends with within school. That's very tough. Whilst I would say neither of my children are particularly unusual, the fact that they have a choice to be friends with tens (nearly hundreds) of others has meant that their friendship groups are very close and very good (in my opinion).
The other thing that I'd add is that the time around adolescence is the time that children change quite a lot. I'm sure we all know many children whom we saw in year 6 and were a particular "type" of person - and then one meets them again at 16 and they are so different. So choosing a school that is going to cater well for a sensitive, lacking-in-confidence child might be counter-productive because in another environment they might blossom into quite a different kind of person.
Having the ability to choose an indie as a back-up might mean that you can choose the grammar school (which sounds lovely!) with more confidence knowing that you have an alternative should things not work out.
Good luck!

[Stressed?Moi?]

Stressed?Moi? you comment that "smaller class sizes are a real bonus", but I have to query your evidence for that? Actually, all the research points to teh fact that class size makes no difference at all - certainly not on achievement (which if anything tends to be higher in bigger class sizes) and can, as Amber has alluded to, exacerbate any perceived issues as there are less "other children" to go to if there is a problem.

....................I'm only speaking from our experience. My kids loved that the teachers in their classes had time to sit with them as individuals and explain things they didn't understand. They excelled at that time because of it.

Whilst I agree that Crypt is not yet fully co-ed, having experienced a school that suddenly changed from being all boys to including girls (albeit in the 6th form), the transition years are some of the best, and the pastoral side is souped up for both genders.

....................Never experienced this situation so can only go on gut feeling. The point I was making is that it will only be truly co-ed when there are girls in all years. As of 2018, there will be say (pick a number) 50 girls in a boys school. Plus six form.

I would add that OP, going in with gusto and the idea that this is for the next 7 years, is the best way - you don't want your son to feed off any perceived insecurities from you and he may be feeling positive about going somewhere new. You say that finance is OK but not great - ie you could afford it but would make some sacrifices - he will notice these - and this may put additional pressure on him at an independnet, especially if he is feeling things arent going great. It is much easier to move from a GS to an independent than the other way round, for lots of reasons, one being that the pace of work can be behind in the indie, the other being space. I actually don't buy into that the friendship groups are all formed in Y7 - most decent schools move children around, either because they can or to do with options they take, but mainly to ensure that any poor behaviour/failing relationships can be managed by splitting people up, so this is the norm in Y8/9 anyway.

....................Agree with this; especially going in with gusto. My son hardly knows the boys he joined with from primary school now. My experience of two grammar schools though is that it isn't a given the classes will be mixed up in Y8/9. Neither of mine have been.

[pish]

loobyLou has a point regarding - where one is concerned about possible friendship groups and finding like-minded individuals, it tends to be easier in larger settings than smaller

Will that be an issue at Kings. Does anyone have any experience.