If you didn't tick to share with other Grammars - read this

[onthefence]

What a mess!
Can any child sit the test late or are there conditions? (such as being new to the area). I wonder if scores are adjusted because they are sitting it 6 months after the other children?

Kaybee, I think the birth month standardisation equation is adapted for late sitters. I presume this is more heavily weighted against late sitters because, at least in maths, they are likely to have completed the relevant parts of the curriculum that they have not covered at the start of the year, i.e. it is not just a matter of being a bit older and having more opportunities to expand their vocab. I think I read this elsewhere in the forum or online but I cannot find it now. Unsure about the criteria for sitting the test later on instead of September but if it was really a way to game the system I am guessing more would do it.

Of course, this would apply to waiting lists for most schools but, possibly not to Crypt as detailed above. However, I don't think Crypt is the school that Kaybee is concerned about in her particular post. The potentially unintended outcome of GCC advertising late 'shares' is that it could potentially affect all waiting lists, not just Crypt's, but I am guessing that the mysterious CEM standardisation will mitigate the effect of that for most children on the waiting list at other schools.

[cazien]

The GCC will not/cannot offer a child a place if they have not qualified.

When my DS was 1 rank off qualifying, we contacted Crypt who told us the only option was to go to appeal, and that they would be sending out information on how to appeal after April 1st. We only received a letter offering a place on 3 April, not an appeal letter .

Am I missing something here, or is the second statement a direct contradiction of the first?

I bet you any money that Crypt will do just that this time round. It would be their least worst option, surely? They have already lost some credibility and if they insist on everyone who just missed their absurdly inflated pass mark going to appeal, they will lose a load more, as well as a fair bit of money and person hours.

I was just trying to emphasise the fact that (in previous years anyway ) the GCC will not change the school allocation offered, because they cannot change a schools admission policy. But reading posts on here as to what appears to be an ever increasing debacle of sharing results after the event, who knows what GCC will do in future

I agree, I fully expect Crypt to offer places to those who were just outside the qualifying rank, they would be very foolish just to leave it to appeals/late testers/reallocation requests in the hope that all places will be filled.

[Watermelon8]

I think it's unfair to make negative comments against Crypt regarding their decision on what would be the lowest rank they will accept. I know it hasn't been an easy decision as the school needs to ensure to go fully co-educational it needs good percentage of girls attending in 2018 into Year 7. Their thought behind going down to rank 600 would ensure a good mix of girls and boys will have qualified within this number. It has nothing to do with trying to change the hierarchy of the school. What we must understand that not every child that sits the Grammar Test and qualifies a place will eventually decide to go to a Grammar School. They may decide the school is too far and prefer a local comp school. Some parents may decide that it's too far for the child to travel and even though they qualified will think against it. Some children take the Gloucestershire Grammar Test as a back up as they maybe living in Birmingham or elsewhere and think if they take both tests which do not take place on the same day they raise there chances in getting into a Grammar School. If they lets say, pass for Birmingham and they live in Birmingham they won't consider Gloucestershire GS and so there rank position is now redundant. Also there could be more redundant rank positions because parents sending their children to independent schools may use the good rank position to negotiate private school fees. So as you can see that going down to rank 600 for Crypt was a starting position for consideration this year. No one can predict how many children in the top 600 will be seriously considering a place at a Grammar. Next year as the new co-educational cohort settles into Crypt it may attract more and more children that wish to only attend mixed and not single sex school. Which means that some parents will only be putting down the 2 Grammar schools that are co-educational, Pates and Crypt as their choices on the CAF form. Who knows, it might be the case that Crypt next year won't even need to go down to as low as 600. The first year is always difficult to predict, but as the dust settles the school will establish its position. If Crypt have underestimated in filling their spaces then at least they are doing the right thing and giving the children who didn't make the rank an opportunity (which may be a hassle but fair) through the Waiting List, Appeal System, Late "Test sitters" Application etc.

I agree wholeheartedly! This forum should surely be about helping people, imparting knowledge etc. It’s very clear that a few commenters really don’t like Crypt - we’ve heard you...lots! but seriously, is it necessary to make all the snide comments! Crypt’s first co-ed year was always going to be an unknown but will no doubt go from strength to strength once this year is sorted. They are all great schools & if you are lucky enough to have a choice then you simply choose the one that suits your child best! I really wish the snobbery would stop & we could just support each other through the 11+ process, it’s hard enough!

[can'tthinkofone]

I must be reading a different thread - I haven't seen anyone on this thread criticise Crypt as a school or put it down. I have only ever heard good things about it.

There is criticism of the process and how it has been handled yes but not of the actual school itself.

[Amber]

I must be reading a different thread - I haven't seen anyone on this thread criticise Crypt as a school or put it down. I have only ever heard good things about it.

There is criticism of the process and how it has been handled yes but not of the actual school itself.

I agree. If there can't be an open, polite discussion about what has led to the current situation - which everyone must agree is a mess - then what is a forum for? I see no 'snide remarks' or criticism of the school itself, which like others I have only ever heard good things about.

[Mrs.Engineer]

Why is the process a mess? The process is no different to previous years, whereby the Grammar school will decide which rank it will qualify upto to to ensure it can reasonably fill most of their spaces. If spaces are not filled they will fill them through waiting lists and appeals etc.
Not all Grammar Schools are openly advertising the way Crypt are, but that does not mean they are not going through the same situation. All it is that they are keeping it a low profile. They may have less numbers to fill but they are still doing exactly the same. Remember this year due to Crypt ranking including boys and girls, has left parents unsure of how to compare to the ranks with the single-sex schools. Crypt Open Day’s/Evenings are a way of them communicating with parents to ensure they understand that a low rank at Crypt does not mean they have lesser chance of getting a place compared to a higher rank at the other schools. I believe a school that is doing everything to reach out to parents and children, just shows how transparent they are. Many may have opted for a local comp as safer choice thinking there is no way with a lower rank below the 500 rank they will get a place at Crypt, therefore not wanting to lose out on a good chance at the local comp. as it’s been mentioned before this is down to some wrongly assuming that unless they put down the comp as first choice they lose out. Again where not knowing how to fill in the CAF form comes into it again.

Yes, I agree a forum should be to discuss everything even if it means people want to display negative thoughts as well as positive ones. It’s very easy to criticise a system without knowing exactly how it works and only seeing one side of it.

[kenyancowgirl]

With all due respect Mrs.Engineer, most of the posters who have made comment have been on this forum and are fully aware of this area particularly, and have been for many years. If Amber et al are not qualified to post about Glos Grammar Schools, then I'm not sure who is, really. I note that you have only just joined the forum and your only comments are a robust "defence" of the Crypt (although, I do have to agree with others that I cannot see criticism of the school but criticism of the quite poor way they have estimated their kudos as they turn co-ed.) Are you, perchance, someone who works at the school? It does come across as if you might be!

It has to be noted that other schools, have turned co-ed from single sex, in the past, and I do not recall such a poor estimation of the number of children who would opt for them. Sometimes it is ok to admit, yes we got it wrong, but we are now trying to rectify a bad situation that we made slightly worse, and we promise to learn from our mistakes for next year.

Just my opinion....

[Amber]

Why is the process a mess? The process is no different to previous years, whereby the Grammar school will decide which rank it will qualify upto to to ensure it can reasonably fill most of their spaces. If spaces are not filled they will fill them through waiting lists and appeals etc

With respect, Crypt IS the only school in this situation, and has been pretty open about the fact that they are undersubscribed. It is very different from previous years in that never before has there been the need to try and market places at open evenings after 1 March or allow late applications. This is a direct consequence of the decision by Crypt to admit girls and applying a wrong algorithm to that process, thereby wrongly predicting demand and not ranking enough children as qualified. Why anyone would see that as a massive criticism of the school itself is rather beyond me, but it IS a mess and one they are trying to sort out.

Not all Grammar Schools are openly advertising the way Crypt are, but that does not mean they are not going through the same situation. All it is that they are keeping it a low profile. They may have less numbers to fill but they are still doing exactly the same.

I think if you have evidence of this, parents on here would be interested to hear it. Certainly the school I know very well does not have this issue, and yes I do know, for reasons I won't disclose here, but I am totally certain they are not experiencing issues with unfilled places.

And also with respect, many of the posters on here, myself included, have many years of experience working in education, and/or have children who have gone through this process before, at Crypt and other schools. And never seen a situation like this before. I was actually in touch with someone at GCC yesterday who said it was 'rather complicated this year'.

I am certainly only trying to help, and my concern all along in all of this is for the less well-informed parents who might not have realised that they have a second chance to get their child into this school. I do not enjoy the adversarial tone you have adopted and think it is inappropriate on a thread which is trying to advise those whose children narrowly missed a place at Crypt.

[Kaybee]

I was referring to the decision of Gloucestershire CC to put crucial
information out via twitter and Facebook and not contact parents by any other means as a mess! Many parents wouldn't have received the information about being now able to
share their results with schools they didn't originally choose to share their results with. I certainly wouldn't have known about this had I not been on this forum.

[onthefence]

Wow. There is obviously a subtext here that I am missing.

First of all, I can't believe that any parent makes up their mind about a school based on posts perceived as partisan on this forum. Posters tend to wear their allegiances pretty well on their sleeves [and some posters may actually be employed by the school in question!]. Each child takes their own individual path through school and, as has been said many times on here, what is good/bad for one isn't necessarily good/bad for another. The same people who have been accused of being biased on this thread have also spent their free time imparting advice and information to parents they don't know and will never meet.

This forum is really great for sharing information and, lest it get lost in all the above, there are some important things to take away from this thread: -

Anyone taking the 11 + test in March has a *really* strong chance of getting into Crypt if they meet their qualifying standard.

Anyone who has chosen to share with Crypt at a late stage is likely to get in if they met their qualifying standard. Presuming that all those who were interested in Crypt know people on this forum, follow GCC on twitter or are friends with them on Facebook, waiting lists for all schools may have more movement than usual. However, the possibility of increased 'shares' at a late stage across all schools may make progress up all waiting lists slightly more murky.

The appeals process has the potential to be pretty lengthy and congested this year but appealing for some schools, particularly Crypt, may be more likely to be successful than in past years.

If your child didn't get in to a school on the first allocation but does on a waiting list, tell them to take heart. It was a particularly imperfect process this year and some children will get into a grammar school on a waiting list where they may have got an automatic place had schools had a crystal ball and ranked the right number of children. I hope that all this doesn't cause any children to lose confidence.

The Crypt Y7 intake is likely to comprise at least 20 per cent girls, potentially a lot higher, once all the extra admissions shake down. That isn't bad for a first co-ed year.

All the changes this year have been pretty distracting for the schools and for parents. I am unsure at this stage what would be useful to gift to next year's stressy parents (maybe, if you like a school best be sure to put it first on your CAF, a low rank does not necessarily mean your child won't get in?). Perhaps if people continue to post rankings etc through the waiting list process it may give a better indication of likely offers at each school next year.

Good luck with any waiting lists and appeals everyone. Back to my wine.