Standarised scores

Eleven Plus (11+) in Gloucestershire (Glos)

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now
jearund
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by jearund »

I didn't have to pay.
jvb16
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:05 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by jvb16 »

I’ve emailed twice to request scores and still not been given them!
Brackenboo
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:21 am

Re: Standarised scores

Post by Brackenboo »

Emailed and it's been forwarded to the FOI team, so will see if I get a response
Skip
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:25 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by Skip »

Why do you want to ‘break CEM’s model’? Trying to understand the motivation behind this? Surely CEM and the school may choose to weight things differently from year to year for a host of perfectly reasonable reasons.
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Indeed they can and indeed they do - usually at the request of the commissioning LA. Warwickshire for example asked CEM to change the weighting from one third each Maths:NVR:VR to 50:50 Maths/NVR:VR, with no warning one year, because they realised that both NVR and Numeracy are linked and they were getting strong mathematicians who were then struggling with the vast majority of GCSE subjects that require a good written language skill.

The fact that the weighting doesn't play in a child's favour is not a strong case for an appeal.
JayC
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:33 am

Re: Standarised scores

Post by JayC »

So you dont have to pay for it. But you should follow a process which is to officially ask CEM for this information via FOI, ask them to confirm receipt, at that point the clock is ticking, they by law then have 30 days (I think) to respond, if they don't - which is what happened to me you should ring them up. Now when I rang them they were someone will get back to you, so I said to the lady well the days are up and I'm going to be contacting the data commissioner and making a complaint...then she told me to hold on, and I could hear talking to her friend telling and they mentioned the person who deals with this by name (damn novices), she then said someone will deal with this. Then within 15 minutes I had the data. Now I don't think some of you should have so many issues because by now they should be good at giving this information seeing as though others have now done this as well.
JayC
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:33 am

Re: Standarised scores

Post by JayC »

Of course they may change it each but that's not the point here! And in the scenario I have with the parent appealing the weighting just forms part of their appeal, as well as the fact that the weighting was extreme. I don't really want to talk more about the appeal side of this as it's unfair to the parents in question.

The point of my post here was to gain more data so I could help others with appeals, closure, and prep.

kenyancowgirl wrote:Indeed they can and indeed they do - usually at the request of the commissioning LA. Warwickshire for example asked CEM to change the weighting from one third each Maths:NVR:VR to 50:50 Maths/NVR:VR, with no warning one year, because they realised that both NVR and Numeracy are linked and they were getting strong mathematicians who were then struggling with the vast majority of GCSE subjects that require a good written language skill.

The fact that the weighting doesn't play in a child's favour is not a strong case for an appeal.
cheltdad
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:53 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by cheltdad »

Must admit reading this thread I really can't understand what all this is about.

If there is a concern that DD or DS somehow got the wrong marks (i.e. very low, not a bit lower than you think they are capable of) on part of the test (potentially to use that as part of an appeal) - then fine; but trying to see exactly what the mark breakdown was on these specific papers to try and see if DS or DD is "weak" on a particular area is surely not going to tell you any more (probably less) than looking at the results of some representative mock or practice papers and seeing if there a trend on specific question types (looking at one snapshot on one day is never really going to tell you about underying issues - especially if they got the relative question difficulty between sections this year different to other years for some reason).

We have a whole stack of that type of data on our DD and if I really (at this point, given that she qualified for 4 schools and - more importantly - got into the one she wanted) thought it would help crawling all over them yet again and getting her really fed up by pointing out that, despite all the tutoring, hours spent studying (and not playing, like some of her school friends did - who still got into grammar) that she was still "weak" in certain areas, I might do something - however I don't; and I feel it's about time she had some "down time" and had time to be a child again, rather than being worried about something that she somehow got "wrong".

If the aim is to try and get data to see if there is a way to "beat" the system next time (if there is a next time) by focusing on the areas that seemed to get a higher weighting - then it won't work because it gets tweaked each year to try and stop that sort of thing having an effect.
cheltdad
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:53 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by cheltdad »

JayC wrote:Of course they may change it each but that's not the point here! And in the scenario I have with the parent appealing the weighting just forms part of their appeal, as well as the fact that the weighting was extreme. I don't really want to talk more about the appeal side of this as it's unfair to the parents in question.

The point of my post here was to gain more data so I could help others with appeals, closure, and prep.

kenyancowgirl wrote:Indeed they can and indeed they do - usually at the request of the commissioning LA. Warwickshire for example asked CEM to change the weighting from one third each Maths:NVR:VR to 50:50 Maths/NVR:VR, with no warning one year, because they realised that both NVR and Numeracy are linked and they were getting strong mathematicians who were then struggling with the vast majority of GCSE subjects that require a good written language skill.

The fact that the weighting doesn't play in a child's favour is not a strong case for an appeal.
I don't see how you can say the weighting this year was "extreme" when as far as I know there is no real data on how it was different to any other years. Whatever the weighting set up is there are going to be some children that gain and some that loose - sadly that's life and no exam system is perfect. I can't see an appeal based on "the weighting used this year disadvantaged my child" getting very far.

Neither, you could argue, is the way that Pates sets extra rules in terms of needing to be above a (variable each year) level in each section of the paper; or the number of places that are taken in the Gloucester Grammars by those who don't even live in Gloucestershire (something that at least 2 of the schools were talking about trying to change).
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Standarised scores

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Jay C the weighting can be as extreme as they choose - it is the same for every child that takes the test each year. Even as a point at appeal it will be ignored at best. And trying to win an appeal by saying oh but look how strong my child is in this area but not in this area, isn't likely to help, when an appeal is won on overwhelming academic evidence, overwhelming evidence as why that specific school is right for the child above no other and, occasionally, a small amount of extenuating circumstances, none of which the test make up falls into - and I have been helping on this forum and with some appeals in a CEM area for many years.

Surely closure is the fact that a child did or did not get into the school of their choice on the day - because they did not get as many points as someone else on the day? Not sure what more closure anyone needs because understanding where their child went wrong "today" is not going to help them next year, or last year, as the test changes and the weightings change.

Genuinely no offence (as I know your motives are genuine!) but if parents want to give over their personal data including dates of birth etc to a stranger on the internet to do with as they will, then that is their perogative, of course, but I would not be handing out my children's details to someone I knew let alone someone I didn't!
Post Reply
11 Plus Platform - Online Practice Makes Perfect - Try Now