Watford grammars siblings

[Sallyltb]

I actually like the idea of no siblings who are out of catchment.

I like the idea of no applicants at all from out of catchment. In fact I would question why places are being offered to people in the outer catchment. I wouldn't travel 5 miles to do my weekly shopping so why is it deemed acceptable to expect a child to travel that distance twice a day to get to and from school?

If there are barely enough places to meet the needs of the local community, what exactly is the argument for offering these places to people outside of the local area?

We live barely three miles from WGGS. There is a bus that goes direct and takes les than 30 minutes door to door with walking included. Yet we are in the outer catchment area.

[noonynunu]

I actually like the idea of no siblings who are out of catchment.

I like the idea of no applicants at all from out of catchment. In fact I would question why places are being offered to people in the outer catchment. I wouldn't travel 5 miles to do my weekly shopping so why is it deemed acceptable to expect a child to travel that distance twice a day to get to and from school?

If there are barely enough places to meet the needs of the local community, what exactly is the argument for offering these places to people outside of the local area?

We live barely three miles from WGGS. There is a bus that goes direct and takes les than 30 minutes door to door with walking included. Yet we are in the outer catchment area.

Interesting that I gave the example of 5 miles away and you counter that with a journey 3 miles away.

I have made the point that I think that catchment areas should be reviewed regularly to reflect local population and educational needs. This would allow school places to be brought to the areas that do not have sufficient provision and prioritise the local community. This regular review would surely negate the need for outer catchments.

My DS lives 10 minutes walk from the school. How long would it take for you DC to walk to the school. Just because public transport is in your favour, it does not make it any closer to where you live and therefore your local school.

I think you will find that there will be children living further than 3 miles from the school who may be able to do the journey in around 30 to 45 minutes due to the schools proximity to the met line station. Suggesting that journey time should be a determining factor for catchment areas would not be met with much approval amongst the inner London communities. With easy access to tube lines, London catchments would become huge.

I still hold my view that a child living 3 miles from the school, shouldn't be given priority over a child living 300 meters. This is especially true if they are a sibling and have not even sat the 11 plus exam. After all if a sibling lived in Manchester, they would still get priority over a local child (other than the 19 who apply under the distance criteria). Before anyone questions whether this would ever really happen, bear in mind that there is a direct rail link between Manchester and Watford.

I am sure every single parent who has gained a place for their child at any of the Watford schools will be able to find plenty of reasons to justify why that child deserved a place. Even educational tourists can claim that they have done nothing wrong as the admissions criteria allow it so their child deserves their place.

Unfortunately they are justifying their actions to people who are facing the prospect of no local school AT ALL. Unlike some surrounding areas, such as Harrow, parents have only 4 school choices and as of this year, no "safe bet" school to fall back on.

I am sure every one who is in the privileged position to have a choice of schools will fight to retain that freedom of choice.

I will add, given that the schools admissions criteria allow you to apply for a school place then, on that basis, yes I agree, you have every right to do so and your child is certainly entitled to that place, at least in the eyes of the school.

[Cricket]

I am surprised (or rather annoyed) by the fact that it is the Watford grammar schools that are constantly criticised for their sibling policies when other SW Consortium schools have no limit to catchment in relation to their siblings - e.g SCD for instance has siblings from Ruislip, Harrow, Chesham, Great Missenden and further afield etc. Their academic and music places (albeit only 20%pa) have no restriction on distance whatsoever so anyone can get in and then those entrants have siblings who are guaranteed a place at the school. The grammar does not guarantee the place for a sibling - as has been seen this year when some cross-siblings did not get in. In future, numbers may mean, not all brother siblings will get in. But any SCD sibling, from how ever far out, is guaranteed a place!

I think that it is easy to criticise when the system has worked against you or their is a risk of it working against you.

Further, when choosing a highly academic school, surely a child's ability and needs are more important to it being the right school than someone moving close merely to get in to it.

[decaff]

SCD is not the same thing at all as a large number of pupils gain admission on their location to the school and while I agree they have no outer catchment for music or academic test they only take in a total 20% under this criteria. So unlike Watford all parents living in Chorleywood know they have an excellent chance of a place at SCD. We can see how far it comes out by looking at statistics sticky.

[noonynunu]

I am surprised (or rather annoyed) by the fact that it is the Watford grammar schools that are constantly criticised for their sibling policies when other SW Consortium schools have no limit to catchment in relation to their siblings - e.g SCD for instance has siblings from Ruislip, Harrow, Chesham, Great Missenden and further afield etc. Their academic and music places (albeit only 20%pa) have no restriction on distance whatsoever so anyone can get in and then those entrants have siblings who are guaranteed a place at the school. The grammar does not guarantee the place for a sibling - as has been seen this year when some cross-siblings did not get in. In future, numbers may mean, not all brother siblings will get in. But any SCD sibling, from how ever far out, is guaranteed a place!

I think that it is easy to criticise when the system has worked against you or their is a risk of it working against you.

Further, when choosing a highly academic school, surely a child's ability and needs are more important to it being the right school than someone moving close merely to get in to it.

You have made some very valid points, however, what you have overlooked is that not a single person has debated whether or not the issues for the Grammar schools are applicable to ALL local schools.

I am a bit surprised that you are annoyed that people are only discussing the fairness of the sibling rule at the Grammars, given that the very name of the thread suggest that this is the discussion topic. There is nothing preventing you from setting up a new thread to discuss the fairness of the sibling rule at the other schools in Watford. I am sure the people living nearest those schools will feel exactly the same way as those living nearest the Grammar schools.

I am unable to comment on SCD as it is a fair distance from me and my DC would not be able to travel there easily, particularly in the Winter months. Other than the music and academic route, he would not get a place there. I don't know any children who are at that particular school. I have no knowledge of what other provision there is for schools in that particular area other than, for that particular school, the fact that all places (outside of the music and academic places) are allocated to those living in the WD3 postcode. If you are telling me that you know children within 300 meters of SCD who have applied, gained a high score in the 11 plus and not gained a place then I have to admit that I was not aware that the situation was as bad for that particular school as it is for WGBS.

I agree, siblings are no longer guaranteed a place at the Grammars. However, I think it is far more likely that the popularity of the school and the limitations imposed by H&S and consequently the number of children that can legally be accommodated at the school is the cause of the short fall of cross sibling places and not the lack of a guaranteed place in the admissions criteria.

You say that siblings going to SCD are guaranteed a place. Is this really the case? Can the school really accommodate an unlimited number of children whilst complying with H&S regulations?

You have said that 20% of places are allocated to those applying on the grounds of academic and music, in light of this I do believe that the percentage of those applying under these criteria is higher at the Grammar schools. I think I am correct in saying 25% academic and 10% music so 35% in total, perhaps I am wrong and someone can correct me on this.

You say that SCD have no restrictions on distance whatsoever for siblings of those who have gained a place via the academic or music route. Again, it was my understand that the Grammar schools do not have any restrictions on distance for siblings or cross siblings. However, if I am wrong on this, again I stand corrected.

As you have stated, you think that it is "easy to criticise when the system has worked against you or there is a risk of it working against you". I agree, however, if nothing is said then it can quietly be brushed under the carpet, forgotten about and the situation get worse.

I will also add, that it is very easy to judge others when you are sitting exactly where you want to be.

You make reference to "when choosing a highly academic school, surely a child's ability and needs are more important to it being the right school than someone moving close merely to get in to it". I have lived in my house for 7 years (22 years in Watford) now and the decision to buy the house was not purely based on proximity to WGBS school.

I do believe my son to have a reasonable level of academic ability, OK I'm bias. However, I don't think he is the brightest child in Hertfordshire, I don't even think he is the brightest child in his class, but I do think he will do well in an academically focused school. As I am on a learning curve it is hard for me to tell which school that would be but my first choice at this point in time is Rickmansworth school (and in all fairness has been for some time). My proximity to WGBS and Westfield would have been my fall back options. Unfortunately ALL of these schools are looking unlikely.

I appreciate that many people will view my expectations at gaining a school place at any of these schools as unreasonable. I accept that. However, I will continue to look at all options available to me in the hope that my son does in fact get A school place somewhere.

[Mgnmum]

noonynunu i'm interested as to why you choose ricky over the grammars as you imply that you live closer to WGSB than Ricky and also that you son is very academic ( level 5 is above average in year 6, so well above in year 4) . also maybe in september when you ds is in year 5 you should include SCD in your list of places to view as it is in the west herts consortium and you have the same chance to get in there as WGSB on academic grounds, but some prefer it as it is mixed. (there are buses from west watford/ croxley)
In most years in most of the west herts schools >50% of all places are taken up by siblings or x siblings. with another 35% of places taken up by academic or music places this only leaves around 15% for distance places. The grammars guarantee at least 10% with some years going above this,
I think it is less of an issue with some of the other schools as the academic score required to get in is usually lower so more local children of above average get academic places, rather than only the super above average who get into the grammars ( and parmiters and SCD) This then leaves the distance places for more local children so the distance goes out further. Housing density also plays an issue, very few blocks of flats near ricky, scd or queens schools, while there are a few blocks near the boys school and higher density housing near the girls.

with the grammars being recognised as some of the top comprehensives ( dont argue with me re the classification, nothing to do with me) in the country there are always going to be far more applicants than places and we are all going to argue over the admissions criteria for ever if it doesnt suit our own requirements.
How would anyone feel if it became a full grammar? or only accepted distance places? i think both could be argued for, but both would create outrage amongst different groups of parents. We will never please everyone.
All i think we can do is encourage the schools to enforce the rules, and maybe consider adopting similar rules to bucks, in that you need to live in the property for at least 2 years prior to applying.

[noonynunu]

noonynunu i'm interested as to why you choose ricky over the grammars as you imply that you live closer to WGSB than Ricky and also that you son is very academic ( level 5 is above average in year 6, so well above in year 4) . also maybe in september when you ds is in year 5 you should include SCD in your list of places to view as it is in the west herts consortium and you have the same chance to get in there as WGSB on academic grounds, but some prefer it as it is mixed. (there are buses from west watford/ croxley)

I did not get a very good impression of WGBS when I visited last year. I visited the school with a friend who, up until that day, had been positive that the Grammar would be their first choice. They too have since dropped the Grammar from their 4 options.

The positive impressions I have of Rickmansworth have come from children I know who go there and their respective parents. I don't know any children attending WGBS.

I will certainly be visiting SCD during the next round of open days. In fact I will be visiting all the SW Herts schools again.