DAO and SW Herts CEM is still the same paper a week apart.

[Daogroupie]

I don't think that Rosetta is talking about sitting the same paper twice which would not be possible. It is the issue that the same paper is being used a week apart by schools that are geographically close to each other and have a catchment overlap.

This means that students sitting the paper on the 10th could be in class for a whole week with other students who have already sat the paper on the 3rd.

DAO have protected themselves by refusing to accept the CEM result of anyone who sits on Saturday 10th September. So it is not possible for an applicant to sit the CEM on the 10th and get a high rank at DAO from having found out some of the questions from applicants who sat on the 3rd.

SW Herts have chosen to offer exactly the same CEM paper a week later than DAO.

Applicants who want to sit both will have to sit the CEM paper at DAO on the 3rd and the Maths papers only on the 10th.

Those applicants will be queueing up to sit the maths paper with students who have not yet sat the CEM paper they sat the previous week. Many of them will be unaware of this and could easily start to chat about the CEM paper from last week. Parents can ask other parents how their dc found the paper last week.

There is no way this would be contemplated for GCSEs and A levels and these are exams that can be retaken. There is no second chance in Herts, no 12 plus or 13 plus.

CEM of course maintain their paper is "robust" and it would not be possible for any ten year old to remember any of the words.

This is the first time that the same test has been used on two different dates as the main sitting. I think that SW Herts should use a different paper and I certainly hope that next year they will hold their CEM paper on the same day as DAO as they did last year.

However as it is now been over two weeks and this is the first query it seems that forum members applying for SW Herts see this as a non issue. DG

[rosetta]

But of course children will remember questions and of course they'll talk about it. It is extremely unethical, as it means all those pupils who are applying to both DAO and S W Herts will be at a disadvantage compared to those only applying to S W Herts, as the latter will have a whole week to ask friends what was on the paper. It means children from schools in the DAO catchment will have an advantage in the SW Herts exam over those outside it, as even if they are not applying for DAO, they will probably have friends who have. Parents of twins who live in the DAO catchment are now guaranteed a place in SW Herts - just send one twin to do the exam a week early, with instructions to memorise as much of the paper as possible rather than answer any of the questions, and then twin 2 can clean up in the exam a week later (twins get sibling places so both twins are then guaranteed a place).

etc etc etc.

What a mess. Can't believe the schools think this is acceptable.

[Daogroupie]

DAO has thought it through and protected their applicants. There is no disadvantage to any DAO applicant that SW Herts has decided to run the same paper a week later.

DAO cannot stop the SW Herts consortium running the same paper a week later, they don't control who uses the papers and when.

But CEM can. They could have insisted that SW Herts ran the paper on the same day as DAO.

It is not too late for SW Herts applicants to urge SW Herts to use a different paper to DAO. There is still over three months to go. SW Herts don't need to change anything that has been organized, they just ask CEM to deliver them a different paper to DAO.

I know for a fact that DAO would never have agreed to a date for their CEM paper that was after the SW Herts paper.

They announced their date long before SW Herts but if SW Herts had announced a date earlier than DAO (which would have been hard as the DAO exam is on the first Saturday of term) then DAO would have moved to the same date or earlier.

DAO have no case to answer. They have made sure their selection procedure is not compromised by only accepting results from the sitting at DAO on the 3rd September, not the sitting at SW Herts on the 10th September.

So it is only a mess for SW Herts applicants, not DAO applicants. DG

[Strawberry123]

As a parent whopse child will be sitting the SW Herts paper and not the DAO paper I cant believe what a farce this whole situation is and am apalled by what seems wholly unethical and unfair. DAOgroupie - what if anything can we SW Herts parents do - there are no contact details on the consortium website and would not know where to begin to complain.

[Daogroupie]

CEM is very new to SW Herts and last year the paper was on the same day.

I think if the schools involved realized the danger of substandard applicants finding out and learning the words then they would not want to continue with this situation.

If this does go ahead I am expecting the CEM marks at SW Herts to be a lot higher than the ones at DAO.

If I was the parent of a Y5 student sitting SW Herts I would suggest that a senior member of the SW Herts consortium gives a Y5 student a English CEM paper to sit. Then ask them a day later and 3 days later and 6 days later and a month later just how much they remember about it.

There is an email address for the consortium on the website.

In their defence I just don't think they realise that it is just basically words and missing letters from words and that is far too easy to remember.

But it is the SW Herts schools who will be the real losers here.

GCSEs and A levels are not even allowed a few hours later unless students are kept with teachers so they can't speak to anyone.

Why would you allow eleven hundred ten year olds loose with the contents of an exam paper that will be held again one week later? DG

[rosetta]

I take your point, Daogroupie, that DAO is not to blame here.

But the Consortium definitely are - what on earth are they thinking?!!

There is no way this is acceptable in a high-stakes test.

[Mgnmum]

i have less and less confidence the SW consortium. I have so far had 2/3 children go through this. No1 was the first year we had the results prior to applying, and they changed the date of the exam, bringing it forward 2 months with only 4 months notice and no 2 was last year with the change in test again with only a few months notice and the nightmare of the 'adding 25 marks' to get an approximate score compared to previous years etc. We are lucky in that my eldest managed to get a place at wgsg so we have the sibling rule, but watch out for more changes, my no 3 is coming to end of year 2 so in 3 years time expect something

[Northdad]

Emailed them a few days ago. Zero response.

[rosetta]

What email address did you use, Northdad?

I can't see one on the website.

[Daogroupie]

SWhConsortium@gmail.com DG