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 Post subject: Pass Mark ConfusionPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:39 am

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 6
Have read all the messages on here regarding pass mark and aftering visiting Judd open day where head of maths told me that a 140 score is approximately 75% and over.

But have just spoken to KCC who state that a 140 score equates to 100% mark on the paper.

Is anyone able to clarify this?

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:44 am

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 25
Its confusing isn't it. The maximum possible score in each paper is 140 but a child does not have to get every question right to get this mark. Depending on age a child would need to get around 75% of the questions right. I don't know why they have this 140/75% cut off. Does anybody else know the logic underlying this methodology?

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:52 am

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 646
marymay wrote:
Its confusing isn't it. The maximum possible score in each paper is 140 but a child does not have to get every question right to get this mark. Depending on age a child would need to get around 75% of the questions right. I don't know why they have this 140/75% cut off. Does anybody else know the logic underlying this methodology?

The scores are standardised so I think 100 is the 'average' score 120 is the minimum score for GS and 140 is the maximum score.

Judd state on their website that a raw score (this is the score before it is standardised) of 75% normally equates to 140.

So if a test has 50 questions on it and the child manages to get 25 correct so 50%, going by the figures on the Judd website, the child will have a standardised score of about 120. If say the child got 40 questions correct so 80% this would normally give a standardised score of 140.

There are other threads on this forum about standardised scores but I don't know how to link them.

If you look further down the Kent forum, probably on pages 2 or 3 you will find one from just last week.

But basically the idea of standardisation is to find the top percentage of pupils, so the raw score will vary depending if the paper is easy or not.

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:01 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 25
I understand the methodology what I don't understand why there is a cut off at 75%/140. Why not grade all the way up the curve to 100%/180?

I suppose that is could be that the higher you go up the scale the less reliable the mark because of the lack of a sufficently large set of comparative data.

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:04 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Bexley
Has anyone ever heard that 75% = 140 from a source other than the Judd website? It has always struck me as odd that you only need get three quarters of the questions right to get full marks. I wonder if KCC would give out raw scores so we can test the theory?

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:13 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:05 pm
Posts: 515
Bexley Mum 2 wrote:
Has anyone ever heard that 75% = 140 from a source other than the Judd website? It has always struck me as odd that you only need get three quarters of the questions right to get full marks. I wonder if KCC would give out raw scores so we can test the theory?

140 is not really full marks. It should probably be regarded as 140 and above, which sorts out the top very few per cent, and there is no reason to distinguish between pupils further.

Any higher scoring would probably make setting aggregated pass marks very difficult.

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:18 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Bexley
Sorry, used the wrong words. I know 140 isn't full marks. It seems odd to me that you only need get 75% of questions right to achieve 140

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:23 pm

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:24 am
Posts: 96
Bexley Mum 2 wrote:
Has anyone ever heard that 75% = 140 from a source other than the Judd website? It has always struck me as odd that you only need get three quarters of the questions right to get full marks. I wonder if KCC would give out raw scores so we can test the theory?

KCC do give out raw scores so you can tell what the 140 equivalent is in each subject. It varies from paper to paper and from year to year. If you search against my name and "raw" or possibly "standard deviation" you should find a post from last year with the raw score equivalents of 140 in it. As far as I remember, NVR was around 52 out of 72 to get 140 (so 72%), whereas VR was 60 out of 80 (so 75%) and Maths was around 78% as it was an easier paper (had higher marks).

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:28 pm

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 646
Bexley Mum 2 wrote:
Sorry, used the wrong words. I know 140 isn't full marks. It seems odd to me that you only need get 75% of questions right to achieve 140

I think they set the papers to be difficult, because if they were easy and a lot of children got 80%+ correct than it would be more difficult to standardise.

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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:30 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:05 pm
Posts: 515
Bexley Mum 2 wrote:
Sorry, used the wrong words. I know 140 isn't full marks. It seems odd to me that you only need get 75% of questions right to achieve 140

140 is not an exam score, it is a line drawn at a point that segregates the top few per cent of students, and is based on a number of standard deviations from the mean. If the paper was very difficult it could equate to 25% raw score.

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