Judd School Admissions Consultation (2011 Admissions)

[sp]

Going back more years than I care to remember (well over 30!) Judd took the boys who performed well in the 11+ as did TOGS with the girls. The next batch went to Technical schools ie what is now TWGSB and Weald of Kent, also having to pass the 11+. The remaining children went to Secondary moderns such as Hayesbrook or Hillview.
The differences occurred much more naturally as there was no tutoring or any of the manic build up to the exam.

[Villagedad]

Sevenoaksparent makes 3 valid points about the compounding problems that Judd and Skinners proposed unchanged admissions arrangements for 2011 will continue to create:

1) pupils commuting sometimes large distances both ways to get to school - with pupils travelling into West Kent from (e.g.) London boroughs, then some West Kent children in some cases having to travel to Sittingbourne and Folkestone for their GS education.

2) the pressure on other grammar schools this admissions policy has, e.g. resulting in TWGSB having to admit large numbers of extra pupils.

3) large numbers of private school children (Judd 41% intake in 2009) gaining state GS places at the expense of state primary pupils.

There are solutions to these problems with simple distance based admissions criteria being adopted, and, allowing state school children unrestricted 11-plus teaching at their schools to compete with the independent sector and level the playing field.

I've just posted my thoughts on another hot topic - OOC applicants - on the other forum post titled "Confirmed more places will go west from east". This is another hot potato and something which I think KCC should be seriously looking at.

Best regards
Villagedad

[2d12go]

I have kept in touch with the views expressed on this site for a couple of years and have very occasionally contributed, however as an OOC parent with two children at Kent Schools I feel to add balance to this thread I need to add my observations, which I hope will be treated with respect.

Threads so far

Funding Issues (Kent schools for Kent Children)

I presume this issue relates to funding, I quote from another thread here "The funding for schools directly follows the pupils actually in the schools, wherever they live, and is now largely separate from the Council Tax". The rest is funded through direct taxation, which as a tax paper should give me equal access to the school of my choice. "The only education services funded directly from Council Tax are the central functions (like Admissions, ed psych, some SEN etc) and any top-ups to the central grants for things like the Music Service".

Merit Based Entrance Systems

The 11+ is a merit based system, presumably if we put our children in for this exam it is because we believe that it is right for our children. Judd/Skinners and to some extent TGS are leaving this result as the only filter, rather than by adding a further one relating to distance. If it doesn't suit you obviously you won't accept that this is a fair way of allocating places. However i'm sure that on the date the 11+ marks were released there were quite a number of parents that didn't make the 11+ cut off that would now question the whole system of Grammar school places, not just the sub-set of the system we are now discussing.

Travel/Distance/Time

We have shorter journey times than many of my children's classmates.

I know that my views will not be popular on this site however parental choice is supposed to be paramount to this debate rather than artificial geographic boundaries. Some of the children referred to above may well be at schools out with Kent because that was their parental choice.

[alfie2]

Going back more years than I care to remember (well over 30!) Judd took the boys who performed well in the 11+ as did TOGS with the girls. The next batch went to Technical schools ie what is now TWGSB and Weald of Kent, also having to pass the 11+. The remaining children went to Secondary moderns such as Hayesbrook or Hillview.
The differences occurred much more naturally as there was no tutoring or any of the manic build up to the exam.

I concur exactly with this. I was at TGGS (as it was called then) in the 1970ies. I lived in Tonbridge. Nobody was aware in primary school they were taking the 11+ and there was no tutoring whatsoever, everyone took the exam. The top half of the girls who passed went to TGGS and the bottom to the Tech (now Weald of Kent) - it was never called a Grammar in those days. The rest went to Hillview or Hayesbrook.

There were girls in my class at TGGS from Tonbridge, Hildenboro and Sevenoaks. Nobody from out of county or further away than a village near to Sevenoaks.

When did it all start to go wrong?

[Villagedad]

Going back more years than I care to remember (well over 30!) Judd took the boys who performed well in the 11+ as did TOGS with the girls. The next batch went to Technical schools ie what is now TWGSB and Weald of Kent, also having to pass the 11+. The remaining children went to Secondary moderns such as Hayesbrook or Hillview.
The differences occurred much more naturally as there was no tutoring or any of the manic build up to the exam.

I concur exactly with this. I was at TGGS (as it was called then) in the 1970ies. I lived in Tonbridge. Nobody was aware in primary school they were taking the 11+ and there was no tutoring whatsoever, everyone took the exam. The top half of the girls who passed went to TGGS and the bottom to the Tech (now Weald of Kent) - it was never called a Grammar in those days. The rest went to Hillview or Hayesbrook.

There were girls in my class at TGGS from Tonbridge, Hildenboro and Sevenoaks. Nobody from out of county or further away than a village near to Sevenoaks.

When did it all start to go wrong?

Thanks alfie2 and sp

It would be interesting to know if there were any measures in place at the time to admit only local pupils..?

[mystery]

No. I do believe that the admissions system nationally was completely different then. There were true "catchment areas" for each and every school across the country, both primary and secondary.

True catchment areas (not the priority admissions areas etc set up in individual school admissions policies as now) were abolished I thought at the same time that schools were partially freed up from the LEA by Local Management of Schools.

Budgets were devolved to schools, schools became more responsible for many budget and management issues than prior to that, funding followed bottoms on seats and competition between schools for customers was the idea. So bad school, fewer takers, less funding. This was the principle, brought in by a conservative goverment many moons ago.

[Sevenoaksparent]

I've heard that a lot of concerned parents are writing into Judd and Skinners during the school's consulation period to object to their proposed unchanged Admission Arrangements for 2011.

The parents are objecting because the schools are not proposing to take distance from the school into account, or in any way favouring in-county applicants, with admissions yet again based purely on score...

A lot of Kent parents find this decision by the schools disappointing as an unchanged Admissions Arrangements will lead them to offering places to pupils who live far from the schools and those outside of Kent, which will lead to a huge squeeze (again) on available places for boys who reside more locally in Kent in 2011 who have earned a grammar school place..!

There was a high profile adjudicator’s case earlier this year - Dartford Girls Grammar changed its criteria to give priority to Kent children - so maybe there is hope yet!

Parents have until 28th February to challenge and object to these arrangements at the school's websites, addresses below:
http://frog.judd.kent.sch.uk/
http://www.skinners-school.co.uk/

[zippo]

When I was at TWGGS in the 1970s, there were also children coming from the Edenbridge area to all the grammar schools in Tonbridge and TW. ISTR though that they had to pass with quite a high mark to get a place, higher than say someone living in Tonbridge.

[Sevenoaksparent]

Deadline this weekend (28th February) for parents to challenge and object to these arrangements at the school's websites, addresses below:

http://frog.judd.kent.sch.uk/
http://www.skinners-school.co.uk/

[neurotic kent mum]

Thak you for this helpful thread. I have used the links to register my concerns. And I would not have done this without the link being provided.