West Kent boys grammars' intake September 2012

[Just1-2go]

I really feel for all those children who have worked hard to get their well earned 11+ pass but are now left without a grammar place, but I have to agree with PianoPiano, I can't say anything for Judd but Skinners' seems to be bursting at the seams and as for

They have loads of money, loads of facilities,

Until they finish the new sports hall Skinners' facilities are actually very poor and if the amount of letters we get asking for money is anything to go by they aren't rich either!

This isn't a problem affecting just boys, there are many girls some less than 2 miles from their closest grammar school who have been allocated a high school despite having 3 grammars on their CAF within 10 miles. It's very upsetting for everyone concerned and there seems to be no immediate solution.

[tigger2]

Right I am going to stick my head above the parapet for a moment! Firstly I have to agree with other posts on here..the super selectives are not cash rich and you have only got to visit Skinners to appreciate that there really is no more room at the inn Believe me, I appealed for this school last year and really covered this subject in some detail. There simply is no room for expansion and they are pushed for space now,which is why they will never be put in the same position as TW Boys and have to open another form to accommodate successful appeals.

I don't know a great deal about the birth rate over the last few years but I know that there is lots of demand for primary places in west kent so it follows that this situation is unlikely to be alleviated. Even if the super selectives were compelled to take high scoring children from west kent/east sussex initially before offering remaining places on a no catchment basis does anyone know if this would this really make a difference?

[MarbleRun]

The fact is that with the current super-selective admission policies we are offering places to out of county children, at the expense of children within the county and this is particularly acute in places like Sevenoaks, which was why the appeal to the adjudicator was made. The adjudicator ruling was not able to make the super-selective schools change their admission policies (other than a couple of technical details), as they had not broken any rules and the super-selectives were not willing to make any changes voluntarily.

So until Kent County Council open a Grammar annexe in Sevenoaks we are always going to have children who will only be offered a place at a Grammar school if one of the schools adds an extra class. The question is which ones should do this. I am sure they all have space and financial constraints, but is it fair that TWGSB and Weald of Kent are (repeatedly in WoK's case) forced to add an extra class, when it is the super-selective admission policies that causes the pressure on places in the first place?

I do know that Skinners' is squashed, I just didn't want to look like I was picking on Judd! But I think from what we were told on open evening that Skinners' has a bit more cash to spare than any of the other schools at the moment.

Can I just say that Judd wasn't even on our CAF so I'm not saying this just to sneak him in - I don't want my son to go there but I know there's a LOT of Sevenoaks parents who do. Also I'm on the "right" side of Sevenoaks to get a place at TWGSB via the waiting list so am still really hopeful we will avoid having to speak at an appeal (*gulp*) but I still feel for kids&parents in Chipstead/Otford/Seal/ middle of a field, who shouldn't have to go through this.

[tonbridgemum]

Ohh, this is a gastly situation and I would just like to say how sorry i am for all of your children who have been allocated a non grammar, even though they have been clearly 'assessed suitable for grammar' with a qualifying score..
After all the hard work of saying to them 'work hard to get to a grammar' it must be hard for you now to attempt to explain the situation.
Clearly this year there will be huge number of appeals - the non qualification scores probably wont get a look in
The whole issue of taking out of county is a very emotive subject that gets a healthy discussion on the kent forum every year... At the end of the day, we all want whats best for our child and will do anything to help them achieve that.
Keep us up todate with any progress, MarbleRun, mammabear, crispen and cole22. TM

[laurash]

I have a son at Skinners' and I can categorically state that there is no room for an extra class; they are not at all well off( always asking for money from parents) and as a town school with no real outside space, there is little room for sport. The boys have to walk 1/2 an hour to get to Southfields and that combined with matches and unexpected sports practice at St John's Sports centre means that children from out of area find the whole travelling thing very difficult. Endless bus journeys and car journeys for parents when the school day changes unexpectedly.

I have also, as a TW parent, been very disappointed by how little support there is for Skinners' by out-of-area parents. Many parents do not attend functions at the school ( which have to be cancelled as a result) because they live too far away and don't realise that to support a school you need to actually give something back. I cite the Carol service as an example...... 100 parents from a school of 800..................Theatre trips, after school clubs, training ..................none fully supported by out-of-area parents and the school is a ' poorer' place as a result.

I must also issue with the attitude of Sevenoaks parents. How can you say in one breath that the academy is ' good but...'? What you mean is ' It's OK for other parents but I want to be able to say that my child goes to a super-selective'.

Schools are as good as the pupils who attend them, the teachers who teach in them and the parents who SUPPORT them.

Skinners' and Judd don't have a hugely better standard of teaching. Just look at how the results go up when children from other schools (in particular girls) enter in the VI form.

Sevenoaks parents should all choose a Sevenoaks school ; avoid horrendous journeys for your children and get down to believing in your children and the local school. The greater the number of 'bright' children who go to the school, the better results will be. That doesn't mean the teachers or school are ANY different, just that they have an easier starting point.

By the way, for the record, I have two children and both are at heavily over-subscribed grammar schools. I can honestly state that, in the case of the one who goes to a school a fair distance from TW, I would go back in time and choose a local school. In that way, he and we would be much more involved in his school life.

[crispin]

Laurash said:

I must also issue with the attitude of Sevenoaks parents. How can you say in one breath that the academy is ' good but...'? What you mean is ' It's OK for other parents but I want to be able to say that my child goes to a super-selective'.

Thank you for some useful comments, but do please refer to my initial post which started this topic. My issue is : what is the point in our children doing the 11 + at school, then passing, but then being told there are no grammar places left at all(not just super-selective), so they basically should have not been put through the tests at all. If Sevenoaks was an all-ability area and therefore did not do the 11+ I would be happy being allocated the Knole Academy.

[doodles]

Edited/deleted as response to Laurash was a bit of a knee jerk

Surfice to say I am a fully committed and thoroughly involved Skinners parent even if I do live in Sevenoaks

[MarbleRun]

I must also issue with the attitude of Sevenoaks parents. How can you say in one breath that the academy is ' good but...'? What you mean is ' It's OK for other parents but I want to be able to say that my child goes to a super-selective'.

Schools are as good as the pupils who attend them, the teachers who teach in them and the parents who SUPPORT them.

Skinners' and Judd don't have a hugely better standard of teaching. Just look at how the results go up when children from other schools (in particular girls) enter in the VI form.

Sevenoaks parents should all choose a Sevenoaks school ; avoid horrendous journeys for your children and get down to believing in your children and the local school. The greater the number of 'bright' children who go to the school, the better results will be. That doesn't mean the teachers or school are ANY different, just that they have an easier starting point.

By the way, for the record, I have two children and both are at heavily over-subscribed grammar schools. I can honestly state that, in the case of the one who goes to a school a fair distance from TW, I would go back in time and choose a local school. In that way, he and we would be much more involved in his school life.

Well I think it's my turn to take issue!!

I am and always have been totally against the 11+.
It was by no means certain my son would pass it, in which case he'd probably be going to Knole.
We decided to play the game as we live here and everyone else does it and he's as bright as most of them - AND Knole Academy is not as good a school as the grammars (how could it be? The teachers in grammars are likely on balance to be better, the parents are likely on balance to be more involved - some of the kids at Knole don't give a damn and neither do the parents - and I do know what I'm talking about. Your argument only applies if the 11+ is scrapped and all the Sevenoaks kids go to Knole. (I also know children who love it at Knole, before anyone pounces))
He passed ! Yay!
Don't care about this super selective stuff, that's just snobbery - TWGSB sounds like just the school for him.

Dot dot dot .....

And now we're supposed to settle for Knole and think oh well never mind. Wasted a summer on Bond Assessments but well they were fun weren't they?

Laurash are you telling me you'd be OK with that ?

(But maybe you're actually agreeing with me ? - except you seem to count Sevenoaks kids as being out of area too !)

[tonbridgemum]

laurash, I think some of your comments are pretty harsh when parents and children are still tryingto get their heads around the situation.
Although what you state may be true, the intial poster was looking for support and reassurance from fellow posters and I personally dont think this is the right thread to suggest their children shouldnt be heading over to tonbridge and tunbridge wells.
As I said before - we all do what we think is right, at the time for our DC.

[Minty]

Surely Laurash, you must have thought that the local high school was not where you wanted your children to go either, as they are both at super-selective grammars? It must be horrible for the parents who have not had the allocations they had hoped for to be critized so harshly by people lucky enough to already have places at Grammar schools, especially when they have come to this forum for help and advice.
Sadly at the moment all that can be done is to sit and wait for the next round, but places do come up on the waiting lists for many reasons - choosing a closer school, going private, some have entered more than one 11+ as a back up and can only take one place etc.
For all those caught up in this situation, I wish you all the best in getting the right school for your dc's and hope that you won't have to wait too long.