Tunbridge Wells Boys Grammar

Man of Kent · Post by **Man of Kent** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:02 pm

Interesting. With those numbers, you would expect the school to have a strong case to make for an investment in physical expansion, although I wonder if there is enough room on the site. Otherwise it could well have a negative impact on standards for everyone there. I guess the appeals panel dont think so....but 32 per class seems a lot to me.

And the appeals are not over yet. This letter seems to assume that there will be 32 pupils in each of six classes, ie 192 pupils. Does that mean only 12 will win an appeal? If not, what if the panel lets in another 30 as they seem to have done before (ie 210 pupils total)... would they then have 35 in each class?? It is making me think twice about my son's possible future - or not - there.

cupcake · Post by **cupcake** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:07 pm

I don't think 35 per class will ever happen. The current Y8 was an intake of 190, so only 10 over the planned admission. I think they are only reducing the forms to 6 in year groups of 190 or less. They are not changing years 10 or 11, which have 29 per class. I think the school's focus is strongly on reducing numbers, so although the current years' classes will be slightly fuller, I would imagine future intakes will be tightly controlled. I would hope so anyway! The letter also states they are carrying out extra building work over the summer but it's more a temporary solution, being of a modular design to support their basic needs, until more funds can be sought. I think the School has recognised that it cannot continue at bursting point and is taking strong action to try and remedy this. Ultimately, it will be a positive thing if they are successful in reducing to 6 forms, with a strict 180 intake.

guest1 · Post by **guest1** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:42 pm

What I understand from the above is that they are only having 32 in classes where intakes have already ocurred in previous years. I don't think that they will plan to have 32 per class for this year's 7, ie, accept 12 appeals. From what I gather on other thread's is that people going for appeal are being told the school is fuller than full, so not to hold out too much hope on the appeal, as it will have a negative impact on standards. I would not imagine that there will be any room either for next year's 12+ or 13+ hopefuls.

cupcake · Post by **cupcake** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:36 am

I agree with the above. I think the school has not had enough support from the Council in improving the accommodation, despite Ofsted's recommendation, so is now sending a strong message back to the appeal panel that it cannot continue to operate in this way and is reducing what they can to 6 forms, rather than waiting to do this with next year's intake. This letter does not imply that they are planning to have 32 per class in the future. It implies more that they are striving not to have more than 180 in each year group. This has got to be the way forward for this school. It has always been a large school but exam results appear to improving year on year. Last year's exam results, particularly the A-levels, were the best in the school's history. This school could certainly be better off seeking foundation status, like Maidstone boys are now doing.

twguest · Post by **twguest** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:48 am

All top community schools have this problem. Certainly no fault of the schools. TW Boys always has a lot of appeals as it's the only community boys grammar, unlike the girls who have both TWIGGS and Weald to spread across. There certainly needs to be another boys grammar out in the Sevenoaks area. Unfortunately, little chance with the current political agendas!

Man of Kent · Post by **Man of Kent** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:25 pm

Maybe the school is striving to maintain 180 places @ 30 per class, and so it should. But I would imagine (strong messages to the appeals panel not withstanding), that an appeals panel is going to want to allow some appeals through - that is part of its job. And if the school is demonstrating that it can manage in years 8 and 9 with 32 per class then it will be hard for it to hold the line at 30 per class in year 7. If the panel grants 12 successful appeals, that is not a lot in percentage terms, probably well below the "going rate" in other schools, yet will still bring numbers up to 32 per class. I won't be surprised if thats what happens.

Maybe the school should have had an "opening position" of say 28 pupils per class. I believe that is normal in other grammar schools.

cupcake · Post by **cupcake** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:45 pm

I couldn't agree with you more! They should certainly drop their planned admission numbers, otherwise it doesn't allow room for appeals. However, there may be some spaces coming up if parents are successful with other appeals at either Judd or Skinners. You're probably right in that they will let at least a few appeals through, but I don't think they are trying to create classes of 32. There are sometimes a few boys who are asked to leave, during Y7, if the School feels they are not coping in a grammar environment. I understand they usually tackle this earlier, rather than later, to avoid embarassment to the student. Good luck if you are appealing. I wish you the best, unless you've now changed your mind! I can understand your concerns. I also have them, as I have a son starting in September. It's certainly something I will talk to them about at the induction evening, although I can see that it is a necessary step.

cupcake · Post by **cupcake** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:07 pm

Sorry Man of Kent, I was confusing you with Kentishman - my apologies. Instead I should say good luck in 2 years - I have another son also in that year!

Man of Kent · Post by **Man of Kent** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:00 am

Thanks, cupcake. Yes, we will facing this process in 2 years time, although I have friends going through appeals there right now (today in fact!)...so for now I am an interested observer! And good luck to your son for September!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:52 am

Schools are not allowed to fix their PAN to allow for appeals. The PAN defines the initial fullness of the school and is not set by the school. All places have to be offered on 1st March if there are sufficient pupils who have passed the Kent tests. No places are allowed to be left vacant for appeals.

Appeals have to be offered by law even if there is no apparent chance of success - often in Kent in recent years, there have been no successful appeals at oversubscribed schools.

However, the Panel is independent and can decide that the admissions authority (in this case KCC) has not demonstrated the school is full. The Panel will then admit additional pupils up to the number it considers the maximum. Even if the Panel decides the school is full, it can admit an extra pupil if there are overwhelming reasons in a particular case. This has already happened in my experience several times in Kent this year.