Kent - doom and gloom email.

[salsa]

What about the Kent children who take the Bromley exams? They only have two grammar schools and one of them without any catchment at all. Children travel from Kent having perfectly good schools at their doorstep. You only have to have a look at the travel enquiries in this forum. Could it be that a child did not pass Kent, but did pass the harder St Olave's test?. Tell that to those who live next to St Olave's and have to compete with 1200 children for, what, 124 spaces?
At the borders, most Kent children also take the Bexley test which is not even a mock as it happens after the Kent test. They do it as a backup and do have a chance of getting into a Bexley school and they go by distance. It used to be the same with Wilmington, but now they have also restricted their intake to parishes and it is harder for Bexley children to get a place. If you live in Dartford and pass Bexley you can easily get a place at Beths or Townley.
You just have to have a wander around Dartford station and see the uniforms. Children travel both ways. Sometimes children do not do well on a test and they have to travel.
The Bromley, Bexley and Kent tests are different formats and have different levels of difficulty. They cannot really be taken as mocks as there will not be any feedback that can be actioned upon. The only value, if taken as a mock, would be for the exam experience. Say a child learns that you need to go to the loo before the test, etc.

I do know one parent, however, who thought that Kent was just a remote backup as she really wanted a Bexley school for her son as she thought that he would be better in a co-ed environment. The boy didn't pass Bexley and is very happy at Dartford Grammar. You never know!

Salsa

[blondegirl]

Hmm, yes, we live very near to St Olaves and I feel a bit like that! I'd always vaguely assumed he would end up there as my brother went there (I went to Newstead) and lots of my friends went there. But blimey, it's a different kettle of fish nowadays. He's going to take the test and he loved it at the open day (he's also done a science day there with his school which he loved) but I wasn't overly impressed. I actually think that kids coming from so far away every day doesn't give the school a brilliant sense of community. How do they hang out together at weekends or after school? I think it's very isolating. The little boy who showed us round came from the other side of Gravesend and had more than an hour's journey to school every day which he said he hated and he asked my son which primary he went to - one that's very close to Olaves - and hadn't heard of it. It just felt a bit odd.

Anyway, have withdrawn him from Kent, and I feel it was the right decision for us. Thanks all!

[salsa]

Hmm, yes, we live very near to St Olaves and I feel a bit like that! I'd always vaguely assumed he would end up there as my brother went there (I went to Newstead) and lots of my friends went there. But blimey, it's a different kettle of fish nowadays. He's going to take the test and he loved it at the open day (he's also done a science day there with his school which he loved) but I wasn't overly impressed. I actually think that kids coming from so far away every day doesn't give the school a brilliant sense of community. How do they hang out together at weekends or after school? I think it's very isolating. The little boy who showed us round came from the other side of Gravesend and had more than an hour's journey to school every day which he said he hated and he asked my son which primary he went to - one that's very close to Olaves - and hadn't heard of it. It just felt a bit odd.

Anyway, have withdrawn him from Kent, and I feel it was the right decision for us. Thanks all!

Wow! Gravesend. They do have a grammar school there. Did he not pass Kent? If he did, how do the Bromley parents feel that he took a place on their only grammar school when this child had a number of very good school that would have been more local to him?

Salsa

[mystery]

I know what you mean about the school lacking a good sense of community and lack of out of school friendships if children have to travel a long way to see their friends, but in this part of Kent, TN8, it's a long way to any Kent secondary.

Really though, if the aim is for kids to have a secondary school as close as is reasonably possible to them for these reasons, then splitting schools into grammars and non-selectives is counter to this.

It's not really for us to fuss about what the locals would think about a child from afar taking up a place in a school. They got the place; so what is it about the admission policy that made that possible --- has it really meant a more local child didn't get it? In which case, does the admission policy need changing? It's because it is one based on score I guess?

It is allowed so I don't think we should think there is anything not to like about the child having the place or making the journey. And there's plenty of people live close to me who don't facilitate kids playing together so the answer isn't always living close to one another either.

In some ways, secondary children travelling to school from different places adds a bit of a wider world view to the school. There's swings and roundabouts to everything. The local secondary is a dream I would like to fulfil but we live in the wrong place for various reasons and I wonder really if it is that great after all - couldl all get rather parochial and nimby really. Local schools for local children ... in some ways it sounds idyllic but in other ways it makes me feel a little queasy as it's got this feeling that the "outsiders" shouldn't be there.

And local certainly has nothing to do with county boundaries. You local school could be over the boundary. Our closest secondaries are in other counties.

Gravesend grammar - maybe it's worth avoiding I don't know. There's quite a few Kent grammars where I'm surprised their GCSE results aren't better than they are cosdering they are selective. Maybe it's one of those. Grammar schools are, in general, easier places to teach in than true comps and they do sometimes shelter a minority of weaker teachers. So let's leave parents to make up their own minds and not just on distance. Some families do move at some point too --- they may not be planning that he makes that journey for the whole of his secondary career.

As for the gloom and doom email, I don't like it. One line which said that it costs X in administration for a chld to sit the Kent test, so if you really do not intend to take a place in a Kent grammar, if offered, or to place a Kent grammar on your CAF, then please don't register for the test would be more straightforward. The letter to me is passive aggressive and might put off the wrong people. There are 32 grammar schools in Kent. They all have large numbers of children who sit GCSE at the same time. They all want to be grammar schools. So it can't be that hard to put together enough test centres for a few thousand Saturday children to sit the test and have enough toilets. And let's not forget that the numbers sitting on Saturday are not all from other authorities anyhow - some are from private schools that are not in the system for running the test during the week, some are home schooled children who live in Kent and some are children who live in Kent and attend primaries outside Kent. That's a low proporton of them I know, but no need to make people from other authorities feel bad when they read the letter.

[Twinkle]

Hmm, yes, we live very near to St Olaves and I feel a bit like that! I'd always vaguely assumed he would end up there as my brother went there (I went to Newstead) and lots of my friends went there. But blimey, it's a different kettle of fish nowadays. He's going to take the test and he loved it at the open day (he's also done a science day there with his school which he loved) but I wasn't overly impressed. I actually think that kids coming from so far away every day doesn't give the school a brilliant sense of community. How do they hang out together at weekends or after school? I think it's very isolating. The little boy who showed us round came from the other side of Gravesend and had more than an hour's journey to school every day which he said he hated and he asked my son which primary he went to - one that's very close to Olaves - and hadn't heard of it. It just felt a bit odd.

Anyway, have withdrawn him from Kent, and I feel it was the right decision for us. Thanks all!

Wow! Gravesend. They do have a grammar school there. Did he not pass Kent? If he did, how do the Bromley parents feel that he took a place on their only grammar school when this child had a number of very good school that would have been more local to him?

Salsa

When we went on an Open day at St Olaves with my son a few years back we were taken around by a boy who came in every day from Shepherds Bush / Hammersmith!!

[mystery]

I can understand KCC's position. Council taxpayers are paying to lay on tests for non residents, 90% of who will never attend Kent schools. I suspect we are often being used as a less rigorous fallback position. It's bad enough local kids end up at one of up to eight secondary schools, being sent around the county at huge cost. Add in the cost of educating out of area kids and that's a lot of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

That's not correct - out of area kids do not cost "more" to local taxpayers. Central government pays a local authority "schools block" funding based on actual pupil numbers in state schools in that local authority area. Then the local authority dishes it out to schools. One of those fallacies which it is so hard to get to the bottom of and leads people to make all kinds of indignant statements about chiildren from over the border being a financial burden to local budgets.

And then there are people who don't like other people sending their child a reasonable distance to school within their own county. If you want secondary schools on everyone's doorstep the schooling model in the country has to change, and particularly in sparsely populated areas with a county-wide grammar system.

[loopylala]

That's not correct

Fair enough.

Out of interest, why do you think that email has been sent out then?

[mystery]

That's not correct

Fair enough.

Out of interest, why do you think that email has been sent out then?

Not sure. The schools that hold the test centres are all academies now? So they don't have to host a test centre if they don't want to? Just speculating? Don't know how KCC funds the running of the test centres either. But it suggests to me they know that they might struggle with test centre numbers this year so they are trying to sound offputting? Political pressure from Councillors to cut the number of out of county children in Kent as they know there's a grassroots popularity for this from UKIP-leaning voters - a nd others too? No way of putting out of county applicants off the non-selectives but a letter like this to out of county test applicants is subtly off-putting and under the radar?

[loopylala]

Not sure.

Do you not think it possible that the email has been sent out to answer a number of questions for which they are receiving a high volume of phone calls for?

e.g.

Question – Will my DC be allocated a test centre near to where we live and if we can’t get to the test centre allocated can we change to a different one?
Answer - The test centre we allocate may be a considerable distance from your home, and once we have allocated a test centre we will not be able to offer you a different date, time or venue.

Queston – Why have I not been allocated a test venue nearer to where I live?
Answer - This year, the Council has received a record number of Kent Test registrations for children who do not live in Kent. Even with schools in North West, West and central Kent taking part we do not have enough capacity in test centres close to the county border, so we are approaching schools in East Kent (Canterbury and Thanet) to try to find enough space to test everyone who has registered.

Question – If my DC is allocated a morning slot, what time will they need to be there?
Answer - Testing takes place in the morning and in order to be tested children will need to arrive between 8:00 to 9:00am.

Question – Do I need to tick a box for the test results to be shared with X Grammar (in another area)
Answer - The test is only valid for Grammar schools in Kent.

Question – Do you have any details on trains/bus/taxi’s routes to X Grammar
Answer - Make sure you know where the Kent Grammar schools are

Question – Do we need to live in catchment for X Grammar/are places allocated by score and/or distance/What date do I need to move by etc. etc. etc.
Answer – Make sure you know what the admissions criteria are for the school(s) you are interested in.


Reading through each of the points in the email, they all answer questions that I have seen raised on these forums.

[mystery]

Yes - that's a good explanation too. Maybe they should put more details on the test registration section of the KCC website - but without sounding unnecessarily offputting.

These two paragraphs below are out of order in my opinion. There is a different way of making clear that some children won't have a cat in ***** chance of getting into a so-called "superselective" from out of area without putting off people who might have a chance. If I'd read this from over the border*, it might have put me off, but both mine have made well above ooc cut-off scores for out of county children for Kent superselectives --- and I don't think their class teachers would necessarily have been that encouraging. And I don't think comparing 445 with 4400 is particularly helpful without further interpretation.

"Many children will find the test difficult. Grammar schools in Kent provide for children in about the top 25% of the ability range. Some of Kent’s Grammar schools - particularly those which are most likely to offer places to children from outside Kent - give priority to those with the highest scores. If you have not already done so, you should check with your child’s primary school that they are doing well in class before committing them to take the Kent Test.

Passing the Kent Test does not guarantee your child a place in a Kent Grammar school. Many of our grammar schools still offer the majority of their places on the basis of straight line distance between your child’s home address and the school, so if they are oversubscribed not everyone who has passed will be offered a place . Consider how likely your child is to be offered a place at the school they want, and how they would travel to that school if a place was offered. Last year, around 4,400 children living outside KCC’s borders took the Kent Test, but only 455 went on to attend a Kent Grammar school."

* am not over the border though!