What happened on Non-Verbal?
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As I am new to this forum I would like to chuck in a couple of views/questions.
1. As some one quite rightly pointed out , why put your child in for the test and possibly the feeling of 'Failiure' if they are not competant in the first place?
2. The same must apply to tutoring as this is giving the test results a false impression of the childs ability if they have learnt the VR/NonVR methods parrot fashion. If you want to spend a lot of money on a tutor, for your child to then spend the next 5/7 years at the bottom of the class and feeling that they are the worse in their peer group because they were sneaked through a test then is this worth it?
I know the benfits of the Grammar schools are infinitly better than the future promised by a secondary school but at some point the pushy parent should consider the child and not their own vanity in the community.
1. As some one quite rightly pointed out , why put your child in for the test and possibly the feeling of 'Failiure' if they are not competant in the first place?
2. The same must apply to tutoring as this is giving the test results a false impression of the childs ability if they have learnt the VR/NonVR methods parrot fashion. If you want to spend a lot of money on a tutor, for your child to then spend the next 5/7 years at the bottom of the class and feeling that they are the worse in their peer group because they were sneaked through a test then is this worth it?
I know the benfits of the Grammar schools are infinitly better than the future promised by a secondary school but at some point the pushy parent should consider the child and not their own vanity in the community.
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tonbridgemum
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:46 pm
Not really very helpful or constructive views at a time when there are many who have had bad news over the last couple of days. This forum is generally a supportive place not somewhere where a complete stranger gives the impression we are all mad for going for 11+ and giving our children a chance. Remember, we are the only ones who know our children, which i guess answers your question, if you really needed one.
I don't believe that tutoring teaches vr and nvr "parrot fashion" how would that work exactly?
You can help children approach the tests systematically, help them improve their vocabulary and speed up on multiplication facts, but there is no way it can be taught " parrot fashion".
By extension to your reasoning are we hby teaching children their tables, encouraging them to read and talking to them to improve their vocabulary. That is givng them an advantage over others.
You can help children approach the tests systematically, help them improve their vocabulary and speed up on multiplication facts, but there is no way it can be taught " parrot fashion".
By extension to your reasoning are we hby teaching children their tables, encouraging them to read and talking to them to improve their vocabulary. That is givng them an advantage over others.
Quite right tonbridgemum. As I pointed out previously referring to my own DD not being 'grammar school material', the reason we put her into the test was because her sister was at grammar and she just needed a pass. It would have been unfair not to have given her a chance at it. Don't get me wrong, she is a very bright girl but would not have flourished as she has in her comprehensive.
Im not a Kent parent, but Ive been following all your news (both good and bad) and would like to say well done to ALL children who took the test, regardless of outcome.
With regards tutoring, I think there are many levels and REASONS for it.
I agree there are some parents who can afford to pay for their children to pass the 11+ (whether that be via an expensive prep school or intensive tutoring from an early age). There are also parents who may want their child to pass as it is seen as another "must have" of the middle classes (a child at Grammar). I do strongly believe that these parents are in the minority.
Ive already posted on this forum Ive started preparing my Yr4 child for the exam, and although no-one has challenged me on this, Im sure there are those who think Im mad or "pushy". To be honest, Ive questioned myself as to whether Im either of those too
.
We have only been doing very light work - mainly using the Bond books for her age group. What has been enlightening though, is what its thrown up. Ive discovered she has trouble with clocks -24 hour clocks especially. This isnt an 11+ skill, this is a life skill, so time spent helping her better understand it will be advantageous to her in general.
Another example is spelling. By her own admission she is a terrible speller (high flier at literacy, but her school dont do spelling tests), so we are spending lots of time working at this. I probably wouldnt have known just how much this was getting her down if we hadnt started the 11+ prep.
If my daughter decides she doesnt want to sit the exam, or for any reason, her work falls below levels where we think she has any chance of passing, then would I think the time we spent together as a waste? Definately not. Ive discovered things about her in only the first 2 weeks of starting that I probably would never have known about.
I dont think anyone should be discouraged to work with their child (and employ tutors for areas that are particularly tough) IF it is to encourage them to grow as a person, not purely to pass this one exam.
The exam is full of flaws - incredibly bright children fail, mediocre children pass. We all want the best for our kids and in many areas a childs entire academic future can be hinged on the result of this one test if the local schools are failing. Its not surprising that many parents resort to intensive tutoring.
With regards tutoring, I think there are many levels and REASONS for it.
I agree there are some parents who can afford to pay for their children to pass the 11+ (whether that be via an expensive prep school or intensive tutoring from an early age). There are also parents who may want their child to pass as it is seen as another "must have" of the middle classes (a child at Grammar). I do strongly believe that these parents are in the minority.
Ive already posted on this forum Ive started preparing my Yr4 child for the exam, and although no-one has challenged me on this, Im sure there are those who think Im mad or "pushy". To be honest, Ive questioned myself as to whether Im either of those too
.We have only been doing very light work - mainly using the Bond books for her age group. What has been enlightening though, is what its thrown up. Ive discovered she has trouble with clocks -24 hour clocks especially. This isnt an 11+ skill, this is a life skill, so time spent helping her better understand it will be advantageous to her in general.
Another example is spelling. By her own admission she is a terrible speller (high flier at literacy, but her school dont do spelling tests), so we are spending lots of time working at this. I probably wouldnt have known just how much this was getting her down if we hadnt started the 11+ prep.
If my daughter decides she doesnt want to sit the exam, or for any reason, her work falls below levels where we think she has any chance of passing, then would I think the time we spent together as a waste? Definately not. Ive discovered things about her in only the first 2 weeks of starting that I probably would never have known about.
I dont think anyone should be discouraged to work with their child (and employ tutors for areas that are particularly tough) IF it is to encourage them to grow as a person, not purely to pass this one exam.
The exam is full of flaws - incredibly bright children fail, mediocre children pass. We all want the best for our kids and in many areas a childs entire academic future can be hinged on the result of this one test if the local schools are failing. Its not surprising that many parents resort to intensive tutoring.
you are spot on jessmum!
That os the true value of practising teh skills needed before the test.
My children are way past the kent test now, but I found it valuable working with them. When I tutor children I work on improving their basic skills, I like to think that I am helping them to equip themselves for education in general and not just for the 2 days of the test. I hope that they go away with the building blocks, systematic approach to problems, rapid recall of the 4 rules, a knowledge of decimals and fractions and a good basic vocabulary. not to mention the confidence to approach the tests.
That os the true value of practising teh skills needed before the test.
My children are way past the kent test now, but I found it valuable working with them. When I tutor children I work on improving their basic skills, I like to think that I am helping them to equip themselves for education in general and not just for the 2 days of the test. I hope that they go away with the building blocks, systematic approach to problems, rapid recall of the 4 rules, a knowledge of decimals and fractions and a good basic vocabulary. not to mention the confidence to approach the tests.
jessmum and yoyo123 are both right. I am not a Kent parent either but I do have two children with academic scholarships to an independent school and I tutored two girls last year who gained places at Essex grammars. With regard to my own children I started when they were born. I talked to them(surely not?), I read to them until they could read to themselves(no reading scheme), I sent them to Kumon because I am rubbish at Maths and couldn't bear the arguments I envisaged over learning tables and it was the best money I ever spent. I made sure they had some music and theatre in their lives . I encouraged them to stand up for themselves and for other people.What you do for your child is not about the the tests it's about what is good for them as people.
With the two girls I coached I had a different view because I am not their parent. We live in a town where academic success is almost a badge of shame and the grammar school places go mostly to prep school kids who live near the grammars and wealthy middle class people.I thought they were bright enough to go and benefit from a grammar and so I worked on their confidence and a few tricks with the VR and English.They both got the schools they wanted and are deleriously happy.
With the two girls I coached I had a different view because I am not their parent. We live in a town where academic success is almost a badge of shame and the grammar school places go mostly to prep school kids who live near the grammars and wealthy middle class people.I thought they were bright enough to go and benefit from a grammar and so I worked on their confidence and a few tricks with the VR and English.They both got the schools they wanted and are deleriously happy.
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gladitisovermum
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:50 pm
what happened on Non-Verbal
My son scored 138 in NVR - I got the raw score from KCC and found he got 50, that is out of 76 questions as far as I know and equates to about 66% -he an early October birthday. Usually was scoring 85% in practice papers, so I guess that gives a further clue that it was a particularly difficult paper......,
I got my son's raw scores in 2007. I rang KCC and they seemed more than happy to give them to me. Just have your child's ID no. to hand.
As far as putting in children for the 11+ is concerned. I was almost certain my son would not pass the test, which he didn't, and if he had, I would have really given it serious thought before putting a grammar on the CAF. It's difficult if they already have a sibling at a grammar and they just want to feel included in the whole process. However, he does not feel a failure. It has just given him confirmation of what type of school he would be more suited to. I spent hours with him on the preparation but feel he can only have benefitted from the extra knowledge he has learnt from this. I certainly now understand his strengths and weaknesses, which will enable me to further support him in the future. There are many borderline children out there and I feel they should be entitled to just have a go if that's what they want to to.
As far as putting in children for the 11+ is concerned. I was almost certain my son would not pass the test, which he didn't, and if he had, I would have really given it serious thought before putting a grammar on the CAF. It's difficult if they already have a sibling at a grammar and they just want to feel included in the whole process. However, he does not feel a failure. It has just given him confirmation of what type of school he would be more suited to. I spent hours with him on the preparation but feel he can only have benefitted from the extra knowledge he has learnt from this. I certainly now understand his strengths and weaknesses, which will enable me to further support him in the future. There are many borderline children out there and I feel they should be entitled to just have a go if that's what they want to to.
