Kent scores?

Kent Mum · Post by **Kent Mum** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:47 am

I completely sympathise! My son is taking the 11+ today & tomorrow (possibly as I'm typing this!!!) and we've planned an 'it's all over' celebration for him tomorrow after school. It isn't really, though, for us parents, is it?

We have two grammars down as 1st & 2nd choice and a secondary as 3rd. If my son doesn't pass (scored fantastically- but his timing often lets him down), I'm sure he'd be very happy at the secondary, which is a good school. The problem is that, like you, it's not the closest Secondary. The one we would be guaranteed a place at is not that good (and yes, my son would also be eaten alive there!). The secondary runs a school bus from where we live, so we know it's possible to get a place there. We've been told by one of the teachers that the chances of getting in are good. But it's still a worry.
I'm not simply judging the local school on hearsay, either. My daughter (year 9) did not sit the 11+ (she's intelligent but wouldn't have coped with the process and her confidence simply wasn't there) and was given a place at this school, despite it not being one of our choices. She has been constantly teased and bullied (physically as well as verbally) for being a 'boffin' and 'swot' and her school work suffered terribly. We are in the process of trying to get her transfered to another school. My son is very much the academic and, personality wise, would never cope there.
It really does feel like a minefield sometimes!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:30 pm

Has there ever been a year when it was possible to pass with a score of less than 85% on each paper? Is there anywhere where you can find out what the % pass mark has been over the last few years? I really can't understand why the marking is so shrouded in mystery!!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:33 pm

Not that I am aware of. If you call KCC Admissions, they should be able to give you past pass marks.

guestkent · Post by **guestkent** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:20 pm

Has there ever been a year when it was possible to pass with a score of less than 85% on each paper? Is there anywhere where you can find out what the % pass mark has been over the last few years? I really can't understand why the marking is so shrouded in mystery!!!!

We had the following information from one of the very selective grammar schools

The maximum score in any of the Kent PESE test is 140, but this does not equate to 100%. In January 2005 the score of 140 equated to
VR approx 75%
NVR approx 71%
Maths approx 75%

A minimum selective score of 120 would have equated to :
VR approx 51%
NVR approx 52%
Maths approx 48%

It then goes on to say that it is approx due to standardisation and that the pattern in 2006 was similar.

So my uderstanding is that it is possible to get to a Kent grammar school with a lot less then 85%.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:57 pm

The figures quoted must be raw scores. My information direct from KCC is that to allow for standardisation you must be looking at a minimum of 80% plus.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:43 pm

the correspondent who talks about 75% equating to 140 and 50 something % for a basic pass is correct. This 85% thing is complete nonsense. I know of a boy who guessed the last 16 of his 50 question maths paper and still passed , and others who didn't finish papers and still got 140

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:13 pm

I can't tell you how puzzled I am now! Are you saying that it's possible to pass the 11% only getting half the questions right? If so, why on earth do people spend so long trying to get scores up to 90% then? Can anyone help a very baffled person?

Kent Mum · Post by **Kent Mum** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:52 am

I'd love to know how it works too!!!

Totally confused now!

guest1 · Post by **guest1** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:34 pm

Not every child in Kent sits the 11+, it seems to depend on the inidividual school and parents. In some state schools there may be as few as 2 or 3 children sitting the test. I think that this is to do with the fact that you have to choose the school that you wish your child to go to 2 months before they sit the 11+. So a lot of parents would rather put a fairly decent comprehensive as first choice, in order to stand some chance of getting a place rather then risking putting a GS first and their child failing the 11+.

Each year there will be roughly the same amount of GS places, but not the same amount of children competing over them. So say in one year there are 1000 places there may only be 1100 children applying for them, so the highest scoring 1000 children will get the places, however high or low those marks are. This is why they use standardised scores. So some years you might need a very high mark to get to GS and other years you might get a place with a very low mark.

I am not saying that this is exactly the case, but just how I understand it.

WorriedMan · Post by **WorriedMan** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:24 pm

The 85% myth came from simplistic sums based on the only figures KCC admit to i.e. if the maximum mark is 140 and the pass mark is 119 then surely you need to get 119/140 (=0.85 or 85%) to pass.
In truth the standardised scores are just a way of ranking the children in order of ability, including those who don’t even take the test, so the top 20% of children can go be allocated to a grammar school. The highest rank is 140 and the top 20% have a rank of 120 or above (an ‘average’ child has a rank of 100). The reason the pass marks are slightly below 120 (e.g. 119/119/117) is because some children may excel at one subject but not be in the top 20% overall.
I see why KCC can’t give out pass marks for the exam as these will change based on how difficult the exam is and also on how good the year group are but it would be good to know where to ballpark pass mark lies. If 50% pass 75% for top rank holds true this year then I hope to be smiling in March with a little twinge of guilt for pushing my daughter so hard.