Waiting list outcomes?

[7oaksdad]

As I said, I don't believe it is his decision. He will attempt to defend his PAN to the appeal panel, but the decision of the appeal panel is binding on both parties. So, if 30 boys are given places via appeal, he has to accommodate them. But I stand to be corrected if someone knows better

I understand what you're saying but there must come a point where it is unreasonable for the appeal panel to insist that the school accepts more boys. For example, if the school is grossly over-crowded and the education of boys already accepted suffers, mustn't there? The school can't suddenly, more or less overnight, come up with an additional 20% capacity without something giving, can it?

[pemburydad]

No, it can't and that is what the school will say. It is for the appeal panel to weigh up the case for the individual (I passed, so I deserve a place!) and the school (we are bursting at the seams!).

And for those of us appealing to the girls schools we will know how they struck this balance later in the week. Fingers crossed!

[7oaksdad]

And for those of us appealing to the girls schools we will know how they struck this balance later in the week. Fingers crossed!

Good luck.

[sp]

As discussed on a previous thread TWGSB did take an extra class in 2005 and 2006. The new head arrived and soon rearranged these years in to one less class so that they could be sustained throughout the school. Fortunately the original classes had been "small" with 25/6 boys in each so after the reorganisation each had 30-ish. This would surely demonstrate to the panel how impossible it would be to go many over the PAN.

[kentmum1]

[quote="kentmum1"

Those boys on the waiting list will be a mixture of those who didn't get enough marks for Judd or Skinners but there is also a sizable proportion each year who just wanted it as their first choice.

Sorry 7oaksdad I wasn't trying to make that sound like anyone was simply 'picking and choosing' it's just that you were coming across as if everyone who goes to TWGSB is there because they failed to get enough marks for Judd or Skinners, which is just inaccurate that's all. My son has a friend in his from (from Halstead), who passed in 2007, it was his first choice, but he was out of catchment. Thankfully, he got through his appeal.

I hope things work out for you.

[sp]

I agree with Kent Mum; many of the boys at TWGSB scored 100% or close and could have gone to Judd or Skinners, They chose the school for its all round education and I personally feel (biased I know) that the boys generally enjoy their time there. I hear all sorts of stories about boys not coping at super selectives. Many have been over tutored to achieve a high score and struggle to keep up. At the end of the day they will probably not do much better than if they had gone to TWGSB.

[7oaksdad]

it's just that you were coming across as if everyone who goes to TWGSB is there because they failed to get enough marks for Judd or Skinners

Well I definitely didn't mean that - I know that plenty of boys prefer TWGSB over Judd and Skinners - so I am sorry if that is how I came across.

[perplexed]

This thread is still interesting, but still a bit short on facts for us to work out what would be a good way forward for grammar education in West Kent. There are some arguing for changing the admission criteria for Skinners and Judd so that it is not purely "superselective" but favours "local" applicants in some way.

And there are others who say that Sevenoaks itself needs a grammar school. And there are others who say that TWGSB should not get bigger. And others who think it could / should.

But going back to what the problem is, so far I have only seen a couple of facts relating to the "problem" on this thread. Someone knows someone else's son who wants a place at TWGSB and has not got one (but we don't know where he lives, what he put on the CAF, or which school he has been allocated) , and a primary school in Sevenoaks which has 16 (boys I presume) on the waiting list for TWGSB. But we do not know where these pupils live (it does not have to be Sevenoaks), what they put on the CAF, or why they are on the waiting list for TWGSB.

And we know that there are 60 boys on the TWGSB waiting list. But we don't know where they live, or their reasons for being on the list.

Doesn't sound enough people for a new grammar school!!

Any more facts out there?

PS. I don't live in Sevenoaks, but I may find a grammar school (mixed or girls) in Sevenoaks useful in future years. But I don't think there are ever likely to be more grammar schools are there? And if there were to be, what is the demographic argument?

[tonbridgemum]

Gosh this is is a very interesting thread and good to hear everyones opinions.
As noted by SP, TWGSB has increaed class sizes in previous years BUT it was not the headteachers overall decision. Obviously a lot of factors need to be taken into account, including staffing and classrooms but I still wouldnt rule it out until all the appeals have taken place. There are still appeals from children who have not passed (I know 2!) who have good cases so potentially there are many children who would win a place.
As Perplexed says it would be interesting to know if the waiting list boys are on other lists and local.

[jonnie303]

PS. I don't live in Sevenoaks, but I may find a grammar school (mixed or girls) in Sevenoaks useful in future years. But I don't think there are ever likely to be more grammar schools are there? And if there were to be, what is the demographic argument?

The key demographic information is contained in Kent County Council's comprehensive publication "Strategic plan for the provision of secondary school places 2007-2017". This analyses secondary school places across Kent's 12 Districts, and contains a wealth of information.

Significant issues for Sevenoaks include the following:

1. Across Kent as a whole, the number of secondary school places in mainstream schools equates to about 88% of the county's secondary-aged children. For individual Districts, excluding Sevenoaks, the ratio of school places to the number of secondary-aged children varies between 108% (Maidstone) and 85% (Ashford). But for Sevenoaks, the corresponding figure is a paltry 35%. By way of comparison, Sevenoaks provides school places for 86% of its primary-aged children.

2. Across Kent as a whole, 28% of the places in mainstream secondary schools are in grammar schools. Excluding Sevenoaks, the number of grammar school places as a percentage of total secondary places varies, by District, between 40% (Dartford) and 22% (Gravesham). But for Sevenoaks the corresponding figure is 0% - there are no grammar schools at all in the District.

So Sevenoaks has an inadequate provision of secondary schools, and a profoundly inadequate provision of grammar schools.

As a result, a high proportion of children living in Sevenoaks have to travel outside the District to go to secondary school, mainly to Tonbridge, Dartford, and Tunbridge Wells. Sevenoaks District is the highest exporter of students to other districts; in fact more Sevenoaks children travel to other districts for their secondary education than are educated within the District itself. Many Sevenoaks children suffer this built-in disadvantage, and have to travel a long way to get to secondary school. And all the children who attend grammar schools have to travel outside the District. Furthermore, of course, when schools use proximity as an over-subscription criterion, Sevenoaks children tend to find themselves at the back of the queue (although there are exceptions, eg Weald of Kent Grammar).

As far as I am aware, Kent County Council has no plans to rectify or improve this situation. Their report states:

"Current government policy legislates against the development of grammar school provision in Sevenoaks, but regardless of this, a declining secondary population, projected for the next ten years, would mitigate against it being a feasible option."

To illustrate the size of the problem, in order to bring secondary provision in Sevenoaks up to the average level across the rest of Kent it would be necessary to provide an extra 780 school places a year in the District, of which some 360 would be grammar school places. Of course, these would not be new (additional) school places but would need to be transferred in from other (neighbouring) Districts.

Sevenoaks families and their children have suffered this iinjustice for too long. The time is overdue for it to be remedied.