Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
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Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
With a calculator you can use more 'realistic' numbers when you are testing problem solving not arithmetic. Number is just one of the four strands and, imho, the least important as most of use use a calculator in real life when the numbers are big or awkward.
Last edited by Guest55 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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longtimelurker
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Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
The dfe website has examples that my year 6 daughter can do quite easily with a pencil and paper, but I'm guessing that these examples are from the level 3 end of the paper, rather than level 5. Can someone confirm? What will the children who are level 3 do? I know someone said on here recently that there wouldn't be levels in the future, but they will still be there in 2014. Not all children are going to be able to do this just because they haven't got a calculator.
I never use a pencil and paper to work anything out. I either approximate or use a calculator, why are they making children do this? It won't help in secondary school when they always use a calculator.
My eldest DD was really good at arithmetic when she took her 11+, but now she's 14 she's quite poor, it is middle DD who knows her tables, etc. because she still uses them in year 6.
I didn't think that many children used calculators in the classroom anyway, but I don't know what other schools do.
I never use a pencil and paper to work anything out. I either approximate or use a calculator, why are they making children do this? It won't help in secondary school when they always use a calculator.
My eldest DD was really good at arithmetic when she took her 11+, but now she's 14 she's quite poor, it is middle DD who knows her tables, etc. because she still uses them in year 6.
I didn't think that many children used calculators in the classroom anyway, but I don't know what other schools do.
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Pumpkin Pie
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Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
We all make mistakes, even on here. I love Matthew Wright and the Wright Stuff, saves me buying a newspaper each morning. My morning's wouldn't be the same without him!daveg wrote: As we've just spent a few days ripping apart their absolutely nonsensical claims about demand for grammar schools which are based on their researchers being unable to divide by seven, this is rather rich with irony.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
Longtime lurker said:
I never use a pencil and paper to work anything out. I either approximate or use a calculator, why are they making children do this? It won't help in secondary school when they always use a calculator.
My eldest DD was really good at arithmetic when she took her 11+, but now she's 14 she's quite poor, it is middle DD who knows her tables, etc. because she still uses them in year 6.
I didn't think that many children used calculators in the classroom anyway, but I don't know what other schools do.
If you're going to do more complex work with algebra, fractions etc, it is useful to be able to work things out without a calculator. You're going to need a programmable calculator if you want to do higher level maths without being able to do some simple mental arithmetic quickly.
I would suggest that your eldest DD is maybe not being taught maths as well as you might have hoped at her grammar school if she is now quite poor at arithmetic. It really is possible to do all the more demanding secondary school maths one might expect at a grammar school and not lose one's mental arithmetic.
Yes Guest 55, you could use more "real life problem" type data in the KS2 maths test if children could use calculators. However, they can do this every day in lessons still. No one is banning calculators in the classroom.
Are there any mathematical concepts that a child should understand at KS2 which can't be tested without a calculator? I am still wracking my brains.
On balance I think it's a good move, except for children who really struggle with number facts, despite systematic teaching and sufficient practice. The benefits will probably only come though over several years as reception and KS1 teachers realise that as well as the excellent work they do with understanding, there needs to be, in some schools, more emphasis on work which will help children commit basic number facts to instant recall memory rather than leaving it up to parents and a note home once a year telling them to play loads of games involving rolling dice.
I never use a pencil and paper to work anything out. I either approximate or use a calculator, why are they making children do this? It won't help in secondary school when they always use a calculator.
My eldest DD was really good at arithmetic when she took her 11+, but now she's 14 she's quite poor, it is middle DD who knows her tables, etc. because she still uses them in year 6.
I didn't think that many children used calculators in the classroom anyway, but I don't know what other schools do.
If you're going to do more complex work with algebra, fractions etc, it is useful to be able to work things out without a calculator. You're going to need a programmable calculator if you want to do higher level maths without being able to do some simple mental arithmetic quickly.
I would suggest that your eldest DD is maybe not being taught maths as well as you might have hoped at her grammar school if she is now quite poor at arithmetic. It really is possible to do all the more demanding secondary school maths one might expect at a grammar school and not lose one's mental arithmetic.
Yes Guest 55, you could use more "real life problem" type data in the KS2 maths test if children could use calculators. However, they can do this every day in lessons still. No one is banning calculators in the classroom.
Are there any mathematical concepts that a child should understand at KS2 which can't be tested without a calculator? I am still wracking my brains.
On balance I think it's a good move, except for children who really struggle with number facts, despite systematic teaching and sufficient practice. The benefits will probably only come though over several years as reception and KS1 teachers realise that as well as the excellent work they do with understanding, there needs to be, in some schools, more emphasis on work which will help children commit basic number facts to instant recall memory rather than leaving it up to parents and a note home once a year telling them to play loads of games involving rolling dice.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
Could you cite an example of when a programmable calculator would be necessary for A Level maths for people who can't do simple mental arithmetic?mystery wrote:You're going to need a programmable calculator if you want to do higher level maths without being able to do some simple mental arithmetic quickly.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
An example may be drawing graphs say.
Y= x^2 + 3x-4
You draw out a table to work out x^2, 3x individually then add up the terms. Then draw your graph. If your mental maths is slow, then it might be quicker to program your calculator with the formula, plug in the values of x and get the y values out.
Tbh be honest, most of my further A level maths class were rubbish at mental arithmetic, mine was ok but then I worked on a market stall with no tills to add up on.
As far as using or not using at ks2, having a DD in year 6, I'm not too bothered either way. The school don't use calculators much and the emphasis is on understanding the concepts, which I think is right. However in the real world, problems rarely come with 'easy' numbers so they do need to learn how to use calculators and they do need to use them in other subjects later on. It's just a case of what point should they start.
Y= x^2 + 3x-4
You draw out a table to work out x^2, 3x individually then add up the terms. Then draw your graph. If your mental maths is slow, then it might be quicker to program your calculator with the formula, plug in the values of x and get the y values out.
Tbh be honest, most of my further A level maths class were rubbish at mental arithmetic, mine was ok but then I worked on a market stall with no tills to add up on.
As far as using or not using at ks2, having a DD in year 6, I'm not too bothered either way. The school don't use calculators much and the emphasis is on understanding the concepts, which I think is right. However in the real world, problems rarely come with 'easy' numbers so they do need to learn how to use calculators and they do need to use them in other subjects later on. It's just a case of what point should they start.
Last edited by Tinkers on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
No you're right - you don't so long as you're given the formulae or can remember them or derive them for say, solving quadratic equations.
What I was really thinking was that it's quite messy when solving, for example, simultaneous equations not to use any calculator free arithmetic at all along they way to neaten things up before you bung all the numbers in at the end to get the answers. Also it would be irritating not to just know some things off pat e.g. if you were given a = 2b, b is 5, what is a? I'd find it irritating to have to get a calculator out to do 2 x 5!!
But yes, it's all theoretically possible with a calculator. A mix of with and without is probably fastest at secondary level. But to have the choice of doing some bits without you need to have some number facts up your sleeve.
In real life it can be useful to be able to quickly see flaws in tables of data etc - estimation techniques which have given you a "feel" for numbers are good here - again it could be done with a calculator but if you had no number fact recall I'm not sure that you do as effective a job if you were entirely reliant on a calculator - I'm not sure that errors would pop out quite so easily.
I don't always have something with me with which to calculate either. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I like the idea that I can do a calculation if needs me (certainly not all calculations, but quite a few) with just my head or a pencil and paper in a situation where I do not have a PC, iPAd, mobile, or pocket calculator with me - particularly if it's very rainy.
What I was really thinking was that it's quite messy when solving, for example, simultaneous equations not to use any calculator free arithmetic at all along they way to neaten things up before you bung all the numbers in at the end to get the answers. Also it would be irritating not to just know some things off pat e.g. if you were given a = 2b, b is 5, what is a? I'd find it irritating to have to get a calculator out to do 2 x 5!!
But yes, it's all theoretically possible with a calculator. A mix of with and without is probably fastest at secondary level. But to have the choice of doing some bits without you need to have some number facts up your sleeve.
In real life it can be useful to be able to quickly see flaws in tables of data etc - estimation techniques which have given you a "feel" for numbers are good here - again it could be done with a calculator but if you had no number fact recall I'm not sure that you do as effective a job if you were entirely reliant on a calculator - I'm not sure that errors would pop out quite so easily.
I don't always have something with me with which to calculate either. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I like the idea that I can do a calculation if needs me (certainly not all calculations, but quite a few) with just my head or a pencil and paper in a situation where I do not have a PC, iPAd, mobile, or pocket calculator with me - particularly if it's very rainy.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
Sorry posts crossed Tinkers.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
Yes good example Tinkers. I agree it shouldn't matter either way really at KS2. But I guess this "hurdle" has been put in so that some schools do put some more effort into children knowing some things off pat - it's maybe a case of acknowledging that sometimes "teaching to the test" happens, so they've put in a test which makes sure that children can't scrape through with very little fluency of the type one would gather on a market stall.
You got me thinking. Some children miss school to work on market stalls. This was a common gripe at a school I taught at. Thinking about it, my two would benefit greatly from a job on a market stall.
You got me thinking. Some children miss school to work on market stalls. This was a common gripe at a school I taught at. Thinking about it, my two would benefit greatly from a job on a market stall.
Re: Abolition of calculators in Maths SATs paper from 2014.
I suspect these days, even most market stalls would have tills 
I have encouraged my DD to 'play' with a calculator at home, working out what various buttons are for etc and doing a sanity check on the numbers she gets out. BUT I never let her have one to work out questions I know she can do in her head or on paper.
Bring back slide rules, I had a maths teacher who insisted we learn how to use them. I'm the only person I know who can.
I have encouraged my DD to 'play' with a calculator at home, working out what various buttons are for etc and doing a sanity check on the numbers she gets out. BUT I never let her have one to work out questions I know she can do in her head or on paper.
Bring back slide rules, I had a maths teacher who insisted we learn how to use them. I'm the only person I know who can.