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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:57 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 2113
Guest55 wrote:
You must define variables or it is wrong. in this case, c could be the number of cups or the cost or ....

In an exam I would have written '1 cup coffee and 1 cup tea costs 12/4 = £3'

Look, algebra is not needed here - it's not taught at Primary so it is inappropriate in an 11+.

So why is it in some of the 11+ practice books?

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:59 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 16127
You don't need algebra to solve it!

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:02 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 2113
I would disagree that some of the questions don't need a knowledge of algebraic method to solve them.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:12 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 16127
OK - could you post one that does please?

If any do require algebra then they are unfair because they are testing material not taught at school.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:30 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 2113
there are lots that use aterms very similar to what surfer posted. In not home until much later but as a simple example something like
'Circle the correct term for ........
A. n+n
B. 2(n+1)
C. nsquared
Etc..
That obviously not requiring you to do any maths, but unless you are aware of the notation then you have no chances..

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:52 pm

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 pm
Posts: 579
Guest55 wrote:
You don't need algebra to solve it!

OK perhaps you don't strictly need it, but many people find rewriting a wordy problem in terms of a simple equation actually makes it a lot simpler and easier to tackle. In the same way that some people find drawing a picture helps with some other maths problems. You don't necessarily need to use formal algebra to solve it. My DS has always struggled with wordy maths questions and sometimes just simply re-writing it as a sum is enough to make what they are asking you to do clearer. Is that a bad thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:11 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:56 am
Posts: 283
there are lots that use aterms very similar to what surfer posted. In not home until much later but as a simple example something like
'Circle the correct term for ........
A. n+n
B. 2(n+1)
C. nsquared
Etc..
That obviously not requiring you to do any maths, but unless you are aware of the notation then you have no chances..

A question like that, according to my daughter, was in her 11+ last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:37 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 16127
The KS2 algebra content is as follows:

Year 6
Pupils should be taught to:
● use simple formulae
● generate and describe linear number sequences
● express missing number problems algebraically
● find pairs of numbers that satisfy an equation with two unknowns
● enumerate possibilities of combinations of two variables.

There is no ‘formal’ solution of equations - the non-statutory guidance says:
● Pupils should be introduced to the use of symbols and letters to represent variables and unknowns in mathematical situations that they already understand, such as:
● missing numbers, lengths, coordinates and angles
● formulae in mathematics and science
● equivalent expressions (for example, a + b = b + a)
● generalisations of number patterns
● number puzzles (for example, what two numbers can add up to).

So that would be 'equivalent expressions' which is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 pm

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 7380
Location: East Kent
Algebra is taught at primary, but at a very basic level.

For 10/11 year olds I would thin the6 woukd use trial and ikmprovemnt. VERY few children would use simultaneous equations .

I would like them to ,actually think about the problem, and reason their way to an answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Equations QuestionsPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:16 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 2113
Guest55 wrote:
You must define variables or it is wrong. in this case, c could be the number of cups or the cost or ....

In an exam I would have written '1 cup coffee and 1 cup tea costs 12/4 = £3'

Look, algebra is not needed here - it's not taught at Primary so it is inappropriate in an 11+.

So algebra is not taught taught in primary!!

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