Allocations day!
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Re: Allocations day!
I had read the published timetable for offers which have the 2 dates 9th April for late and revised and 16th for everyone else.
https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk//Download/107163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Page 3)
I asked the lady in the admissions specifically if people on the waiting list could get offers on the 9th if they were higher up the over subscription criteria than the late people and she said no, people on the waiting list would only be considered after the offers on the 9th have been made to late and revised applicants. I asked her twice to make sure and I said that this was not was was said by KGGS and she very firmly said I was told wrong.
Thank you Toadmum for clarifying this is also wrong. I am guessing (hoping) that what you are saying is that actually they do consider the waiting list and if the lates and revised people are further away than anyone on the list, they won’t get an offer on the 9th they will be added instead to the list and will (if a place can be offered) hear the outcome after the 16th. That sounds much fairer than what the woman at the LA said.
https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk//Download/107163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Page 3)
I asked the lady in the admissions specifically if people on the waiting list could get offers on the 9th if they were higher up the over subscription criteria than the late people and she said no, people on the waiting list would only be considered after the offers on the 9th have been made to late and revised applicants. I asked her twice to make sure and I said that this was not was was said by KGGS and she very firmly said I was told wrong.
Thank you Toadmum for clarifying this is also wrong. I am guessing (hoping) that what you are saying is that actually they do consider the waiting list and if the lates and revised people are further away than anyone on the list, they won’t get an offer on the 9th they will be added instead to the list and will (if a place can be offered) hear the outcome after the 16th. That sounds much fairer than what the woman at the LA said.
Re: Allocations day!
I've just had a look at our LA's info (sorry, nowhere near you) on late applications and it says:
Ongoing offer of places
After all parents have responded to the
offer by accepting or refusing places,
and the School Admissions Team know
how many places are available across the
borough, available places will be offered
from the waiting list. This process continues
right up to September 2018.
This stage will include: those pupils who
were refused a place on offer day (waiting
list), changes of preference due to a change
of address and late applications.
It also says:
where possible
late applications will receive an offer of
a place on National Offer Day. This will
only be for preferences at schools that
have remaining spaces after all on-time
places have been allocated.
So ours obviously does amalgamate late applicants with the 'waiting' on time ones.
Ongoing offer of places
After all parents have responded to the
offer by accepting or refusing places,
and the School Admissions Team know
how many places are available across the
borough, available places will be offered
from the waiting list. This process continues
right up to September 2018.
This stage will include: those pupils who
were refused a place on offer day (waiting
list), changes of preference due to a change
of address and late applications.
It also says:
where possible
late applications will receive an offer of
a place on National Offer Day. This will
only be for preferences at schools that
have remaining spaces after all on-time
places have been allocated.
So ours obviously does amalgamate late applicants with the 'waiting' on time ones.
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Sarah1865red
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:25 am
Re: Allocations day!
Mumtutu, I am going to give them a ring at lunch time and see what they say to me - maybe I'll get a different person with a different story altogether! I'll update later...
Re: Allocations day!
Toadmum thank you, it’s so kind of you to help with trying to make sense of it all. Your LA gives very clear guidance I wish ours was as clear and I hope it is as fair. I have to tell myself now to stop thinking about it and accept what will be will be, but I am not good at listening to myself at all!!!
Re: Allocations day!
Sarah1865red - hopefully you won’t get a third way, that would be madness!! Thank you for doing that though 
Re: Allocations day!
We applied to Kings last year (not KGGS), and were late because we were moving to the area due to a new job and had missed the original application dates. King's admissions policy is based purely on exam score, not distance, but both of these are simply numerical measures that can be ranked.
What I understood from the LEA and from the Kings admissions team was that in the first round the LEA send to the school a list of all the pupils applying for places, ie who have the school included as any one of their preferences, without the school knowing what preference was given. This means multiple schools will receive the same pupil's name. Each school applies their admissions criteria to those lists and comes up with a list of the pupils they will be offering places to within their PAN, and returns this to the LEA. The LEA then look at all the offers for each pupil and sends out offers to the pupil for the highest ranked preference that has been made an offer.
Some pupils will not take up these offered places, since they will have been offered a higher preference (not very often for these grammars, most likely they will be first preference) or take up an indie place.
I was told that typically this means Kings then have around 10 places available for the second round, and I would guess this is similar at KGGS, notwithstanding the anecdotally high proportion of girls in this cohort. The way this was explained to me was that they now take all late applicants plus all that were not offered a place the first time round and "pile them up" (to borrow a phrase). They then rank them and apply their criteria to this list as always (exam score / distance as applicable), and return a short list to the LEA of the now-successful applicants.
So, does this translate to KGGS?
My understanding is that this is not a process unique to Kings, insofar as it is the school that apply their criteria and send results back to the LEA. The LEA don't do all the hard work of figuring out who should get a place at each school (at least for the selective schools). Given different policies between schools with regard to siblings, children of staff, quotas for catchment areas etc, it makes sense for the school to do this. What this (hopefully) means for you is that it is more likely that the school know what they actually do, than that the LEA know this.
If one school include late applicants and those who were below the previous cut-off all together in the second round, why would another school not do this? As you say, it would mean that a late applicant much further away than you would be at an advantage, which seems wrong. (a late applicant should be dealt with fairly, neither advantaged nor disadvantaged, in my view).
Obviously there will still be a very limited number of places available, so no matter how the policy is applied there could still be late applicants nearer than you, but I wish you all the very best of luck!
What I understood from the LEA and from the Kings admissions team was that in the first round the LEA send to the school a list of all the pupils applying for places, ie who have the school included as any one of their preferences, without the school knowing what preference was given. This means multiple schools will receive the same pupil's name. Each school applies their admissions criteria to those lists and comes up with a list of the pupils they will be offering places to within their PAN, and returns this to the LEA. The LEA then look at all the offers for each pupil and sends out offers to the pupil for the highest ranked preference that has been made an offer.
Some pupils will not take up these offered places, since they will have been offered a higher preference (not very often for these grammars, most likely they will be first preference) or take up an indie place.
I was told that typically this means Kings then have around 10 places available for the second round, and I would guess this is similar at KGGS, notwithstanding the anecdotally high proportion of girls in this cohort. The way this was explained to me was that they now take all late applicants plus all that were not offered a place the first time round and "pile them up" (to borrow a phrase). They then rank them and apply their criteria to this list as always (exam score / distance as applicable), and return a short list to the LEA of the now-successful applicants.
So, does this translate to KGGS?
My understanding is that this is not a process unique to Kings, insofar as it is the school that apply their criteria and send results back to the LEA. The LEA don't do all the hard work of figuring out who should get a place at each school (at least for the selective schools). Given different policies between schools with regard to siblings, children of staff, quotas for catchment areas etc, it makes sense for the school to do this. What this (hopefully) means for you is that it is more likely that the school know what they actually do, than that the LEA know this.
If one school include late applicants and those who were below the previous cut-off all together in the second round, why would another school not do this? As you say, it would mean that a late applicant much further away than you would be at an advantage, which seems wrong. (a late applicant should be dealt with fairly, neither advantaged nor disadvantaged, in my view).
Obviously there will still be a very limited number of places available, so no matter how the policy is applied there could still be late applicants nearer than you, but I wish you all the very best of luck!
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Sarah1865red
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:25 am
Re: Allocations day!
Thank you AdamV, that is similiar to what I have been told today.
Mumtutu;
I'll try to explain as best I can:
Let's say that after 1sr round offers were made and accepted / declined there are 10 places available (random number).
On 9th April late and revised applicants will find out if their applicatiosn were successful. Results could be a) scored over 220 and offer made at KGGS, b) scored over 220 but no offer made due to oversubscription, c) scored below 220, no offer made.
The applicants who have scored over 220 are ranked according to oversubscription criteria and the ones that come above the reserve list (established after first round offers on 1st march) are offered a place on 9th April - as long as there are enough places available. The others are slotted in to the reserve list wherever they fit according to oversubscription criteria.
If there are a lot of late / revised applicants that live nearer than child 1 on the current reserve list then there may not be enough places and so some children would go ahead of child 1 on the reserve list. On the other hand if there are only 7 revised / late applicants that live nearer than child 1 on the reserve list then only 7 offers will be made on the 9th and there will be 3 remaining. The late / revised applicants have a few days to accept their offer - and if 1 person turned it down then there would now be 4 places remaining.
On the 16th April the remaining 4 places would be made available to the top 4 on the reserve list. They let the late / revised applicants know the outcome of their application a week earlier than the reserve list places as whether they accept the offer could change the number of people who will get in off the reserve list. Also it gives the unsuccessful late applicants enough time to put an appeal together should they wish to do so.
Basically the 9th April is late / revised applicants decision day and the 16th April is 2nd offer day to children on the reserve list.
Hope that makes some sense!
And remember number 10 was a random number.
No idea what all this means to our chances though...
Mumtutu;
I'll try to explain as best I can:
Let's say that after 1sr round offers were made and accepted / declined there are 10 places available (random number).
On 9th April late and revised applicants will find out if their applicatiosn were successful. Results could be a) scored over 220 and offer made at KGGS, b) scored over 220 but no offer made due to oversubscription, c) scored below 220, no offer made.
The applicants who have scored over 220 are ranked according to oversubscription criteria and the ones that come above the reserve list (established after first round offers on 1st march) are offered a place on 9th April - as long as there are enough places available. The others are slotted in to the reserve list wherever they fit according to oversubscription criteria.
If there are a lot of late / revised applicants that live nearer than child 1 on the current reserve list then there may not be enough places and so some children would go ahead of child 1 on the reserve list. On the other hand if there are only 7 revised / late applicants that live nearer than child 1 on the reserve list then only 7 offers will be made on the 9th and there will be 3 remaining. The late / revised applicants have a few days to accept their offer - and if 1 person turned it down then there would now be 4 places remaining.
On the 16th April the remaining 4 places would be made available to the top 4 on the reserve list. They let the late / revised applicants know the outcome of their application a week earlier than the reserve list places as whether they accept the offer could change the number of people who will get in off the reserve list. Also it gives the unsuccessful late applicants enough time to put an appeal together should they wish to do so.
Basically the 9th April is late / revised applicants decision day and the 16th April is 2nd offer day to children on the reserve list.
Hope that makes some sense!
And remember number 10 was a random number.
No idea what all this means to our chances though...
Re: Allocations day!
Thank you AdamV and Sarah1865red.
I am so glad Sarah1865red you got through to someone who was happy to clarify things - I must have caught someone on a bad day - these explanations were as I thought things would be before I spoke to her, so all now makes sense.
Keeping my fingers crossed for us both.
I am so glad Sarah1865red you got through to someone who was happy to clarify things - I must have caught someone on a bad day - these explanations were as I thought things would be before I spoke to her, so all now makes sense.
Keeping my fingers crossed for us both.
