North Yorkshire Appeals AAAHhhhhh

[Bougalou]

Hi Gogi, have been to 5 appeals for 3 DC in N Yorks.

DS 2 marks off pass - we got him in at the review stage with no more than his school record and predictions. He has done v well at GS and is currently applying to UCAS.
DD1 19 marks off but with medical condition - no chance!! - But then did pass 11+ at independent school and is doing well there.
DD2 5 marks off - failed 1st review but received very odd feedback from NYCC - investigated further, appealed with new evidence at statutory review and was successful. She's doing fine at GS.

I'm not sure if you're in Skipton or Ripon, but certainly for the former I agree with Herman - the further away from the pass mark the less likely it is I'm afraid.

I haven't been as far as the ombudsman but wonder that if you have to attend another appeal it might be worth taking experts with you, if you are able to .

All the best, - I hope you have a school place that you are happy with in the mean time.

bougalou

[Gogi]

Etienne,

Sound advice and fascinating reading about Bucks.
Food for thought definately.

Bougalou...you sound like a serial appealer...a bit like me...did it for primary and now for secondary...just unlucky i think!

Your advice has been invaluable, appealing can be a lonely place but i realise im just one of thousands!

Many thanks...will keep you informed

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[Etienne]

Good to see Bouga still around.

I'd be very wary about taking experts along to an appeal hearing, however!

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Gogi]

Really?

If i was allowed to appeal again (and im under no illusion and appreciate that this is rare...) then i'd just feel out of my depth, having put my heart and sole into previous appeals, covering every nook and cranny and still feeling as if i'd missed /forgotton to say something.

I think i was too nice, id go in all guns blazing with all the help i could get...I had parents before and and after me arguing points of law...i think i would need more help to try and understand the law so as to decide my line of defence/attack.

I know enough as an ordinary parent that mistakes have been made, but appreciate the advice that appeal panel are more receptive to parents, no frills or surprises..
Everything crossed.

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[Etienne]

having put my heart and sole into previous appeals,

When parents lose an appeal, they often blame themselves, even though they may have done absolutely nothing wrong - it could easily have been the result of factors completely outside their control.

covering every nook and cranny and still feeling as if i'd missed /forgotton to say something.

It's very unlikely that you would overlook anything so significant as to affect the outcome.

I think i was too nice, id go in all guns blazing with all the help i could get...

You stand an infinitely better chance by being nice!

I had parents before and and after me arguing points of law...

If they actually won their appeal, it would almost certainly be despite - not because of - this!

i think i would need more help to try and understand the law so as to decide my line of defence/attack.

Appeals take place within a legal framework, but the law is rarely going to be an issue at an appeal hearing (which is why there is seldom any need for lawyers to be involved), nor should it determine your approach.

Your side of the case is all about your own child, and crucially the evidence about him or her that you have obtained (academic evidence, and any evidence relating to extenuating circumstances). You are the best person to present your child's case, and you are the person that an appeal panel want to hear from. The only 'expert' I would ever contemplate having is someone who can add value to the written evidence, e.g. the current headteacher. (Unfortunately in some areas primary school heads are discouraged from attending.)

[Gogi]

Thank you Etienne,

Im learning all the time and blaming myself less!

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[Bougalou]

Hi both, in terms of experts I was thinking more along the lines of medical professionals if they agreed to come along, as it is sometimes v difficult as a parent to explain in simple terms what the key issues are. For DD2 I wish I had asked someone with expert knowledge to come with me, or at least asked for a letter which contained specific details - I used other correspondence which had been sent to us rather than bothering them again and regret this, as I got quite tongue tied in trying to explain the problem.
In our area, HTs are not allowed to attend. I think others are, as long as you let the panel know in advance.
B x

[Bougalou]

Actually, Gogi, just thought of something else, whilst reading Etienne's wise words:

You must demonstrate why your child needs to go to the school you have selected, and that those needs cannot be satisfied anywhere else. We were told with our DD with medical issues that our case presented "wants" rather than needs.

I believe that it is very difficult to demonstrate this successfully, but good luck nevertheless. As you are going to the ombudsman, are you arguing that the appeals process wasn't fair? - I thought that was the only reason you could go as far as that.

B

[Bougalou]

Last post from me!
In terms of additional evidence, we found out that other schools were sending in a Form D containing Fischer Family Trust information relating to the Key Stage 1 tests. Needless to say we had never heard of it.
What the other HTs were doing was blacking out all children's names apart from the DD or DS appealing but then highlighting the scores of all those from the school who passed the 11+ - that way you could rank the appealing child against the others who passed in a test that has actually taken place.
We asked for this with our youngest and could show that out of the seven girls who had passed the test, only one of them had a higher score in key stage 1. I believe this was useful in our statutory appeal, - although there was another piece of compelling evidence as well.
Hope this helps.
B

[Etienne]

in terms of experts I was thinking more along the lines of medical professionals if they agreed to come along

Yes, this would fit my definition of someone 'adding value' to the evidence. If they agree to focus on the impact on the child (whether in person or by letter), so much the better.

You must demonstrate why your child needs to go to the school you have selected

Good point, as the importance of this is sometimes overlooked, although strictly speaking - for an appeal - the issue is whether the parental reasons for wanting a place outweigh any prejudice to the school. "No other school will do" is a definition that tends to be used when the admission authority is applying a medical/social criterion to deal with the problem of oversubscription. I know that Bouga was told that her case was refused because it was based on "wants" rather than "needs", but, assuming the clerk's comments were a fair reflection of what actually happened, I think the panel would have been acting unlawfully, and there would have been grounds for going to the ombudsman. The Code of Practice on appeals doesn't use the word "needs" - it says: "the panel must consider whether the appellant’s grounds for the child to be admitted outweigh any prejudice to the school. The panel must take into account the appellant’s reasons for expressing a preference for the particular school (e.g. why they want that school in particular and what it can offer the child that others cannot)".

As you are going to the ombudsman, are you arguing that the appeals process wasn't fair? - I thought that was the only reason you could go as far as that.

Agreed, one cannot query the decision as such. Whatever the reason for taking on the case, however, it's good news because the investigator may spot something unfair which the complainant wasn't even aware of!