Academy,grammar school and what they offer

[catmum]

Oshosh,
I would say that the main difference between the Grammars and a good high school is the cohort of children and which is better for your child depends on their individual needs/attributes. The high school is likely to have more per pupil funding/facilities due to mix and will cater for more less academic subject as well as the main curriculum.
I have a child in both types of school . The Grammar was great for DD as she was 'pulled along' to achieve well by other high performing friends, my DS is doing very well at high school because he is striving to prove himself and be in top sets ( streamed from year 7) , he also took the early ( mature ) decision not to mix with kids he knew were 'trouble', I think if he went to Grammar he may have actually been drawn to the less sensible children but has made more effort at high school.
I agree with other posters that in a decent school, achievement mostly boils down to aptitude and parental involvement/expectation rather than small differences between types of school.
Having been angst ridden when DS didn't 'pass' I now realise this was unnecessary when the alternative schools are also outstanding, but we all get sucked into the frenzy of 'getting to the grammar' , for those who don't get the results they wanted, don't panic it really does sort itself out in the end!

[Oshosh]

Oshosh,
I would say that the main difference between the Grammars and a good high school is the cohort of children and which is better for your child depends on their individual needs/attributes. The high school is likely to have more per pupil funding/facilities due to mix and will cater for more less academic subject as well as the main curriculum.
I have a child in both types of school . The Grammar was great for DD as she was 'pulled along' to achieve well by other high performing friends, my DS is doing very well at high school because he is striving to prove himself and be in top sets ( streamed from year 7) , he also took the early ( mature ) decision not to mix with kids he knew were 'trouble', I think if he went to Grammar he may have actually been drawn to the less sensible children but has made more effort at high school.
I agree with other posters that in a decent school, achievement mostly boils down to aptitude and parental involvement/expectation rather than small differences between types of school.
Having been angst ridden when DS didn't 'pass' I now realise this was unnecessary when the alternative schools are also outstanding, but we all get sucked into the frenzy of 'getting to the grammar' , for those who don't get the results they wanted, don't panic it really does sort itself out in the end!

Hello catmum,

Thanks for the input....i do agree with the cohort rational. But in grammar schools do the quieter or slower kids have enough help with the school work. I understand with the local academy, they have strategies in place to address these problems very quickly. But in grammar, are all kids are thought to be smart,hardworking..intelligent...etc...and help is less. I might be understanding this wrong......but i do notice in DS's current school that the less able children are the one who gets the most attention.....

[CarpeDiem]

The main difference I have noticed between high schools and Grammar has been that my DD ( at an high school academy) has been set according to ability since October half term year 7 whereas her friends at Grammar are taught as a form with abilities ranging from L4 -L7. The pace at her academy is faster as she is in top sets ( most are high L5 or L6 on entry to yr 7) however the home work her grammar friends get is more extensive and probably it will all level out in the end. I personally do not see much difference between top sets at a good high school and the Grammars.

[gracec]

I have no kids in secondary education, my observation from the 2 primary schools my daughter attended/still attending and her friends' schools , the struggling children definitely get a lot more attention from the teacher. Quite often there is a big difference in ability in a class. The more capable kids are sitting at the top tables, couldn't get enough help from the teacher, and their parents end up doing the teaching and pick up the hard work. I am not trained as a teacher, and it's not fair

It is for this reason we want to try for a place in Grammar school, hopefully the children who get in are more even in their academic ability and have good work ethics. I am sure my daughter will survive going to a normal high school too, it just means more work for me....

[Oshosh]

I have no kids in secondary education, my observation from the 2 primary schools my daughter attended/still attending and her friends' schools , the struggling children definitely get a lot more attention from the teacher. Quite often there is a big difference in ability in a class. The more capable kids are sitting at the top tables, couldn't get enough help from the teacher, and their parents end up doing the teaching and pick up the hard work. I am not trained as a teacher, and it's not fair


Yes gracec, i totally agree, you couldn't have put it better, my sentiments exactly.

It is for this reason we want to try for a place in Grammar school, hopefully the children who get in are more even in their academic ability and have good work ethics. I am sure my daughter will survive going to a normal high school too, it just means more work for me....

But in a grammar school would they just assume,"if you are here..then you must be hardworking...intelligent..clever..etc. i am a bit wary of this....obviously everybody will have some weak points or another which needs help, would the help be available for the quieter and less able children in grammar school. " is everyone at same level when they enter grammar school" Even though i dont have any children in secondary education, i don't think all kids will be at same level of academic ability in grammar school. They are all probably hardworking in their capacity, and will strive for the best...but surely they will be some who will need more help than others......my question is wheather this is provided for in grammar school?

[busybee10]

The advice I have been given by a friend who teaches at Sale GS is that if the child needs lots of help to pass the entrance exam then they should not be going to GS. They have quite a few each year who are 'over-tutored' and just don't cope once they get there and then are miserable for the next 5 years. I also get the impression AGGS is sink or swim!

Oshosh- With regard to folk asking about which academy you have been impressed with, I think that is a reasonable question. Parents are naturally nervous at the moment and are considering alternatives to GS. If you are very impressed with a school it is understandable that parents will want to know which one it is?

[busybee10]

If ACA is the college of arts, I wouldn't have sent my son there. Some of their students used to walk past our bus stop in the mornings when son was in primary. They generally couldn't look more untidy or smoked much more pot on the way to school. Only anecdotal I know but no way was my son going there.

I agree david3511, I have seen them smoking too (only the tobacco variety though!) and I know of one boy there with an ASBO, but it is meant to be improving! I know of parents that are very happy with it and there are meant to be a lot of very enthusiastic and driven teaching staff. It is definitely meant to be a school 'on the up'!

[wilmslowmum]

Hi , As my daughter reaches the end of her grammar school education I probably can offer some advice here, however it would only be regarding my daughters school. My DD had the benifit of 3 years of an excellent prep which really helped her and I if im honest probably went over the top with the tutoring!! DD is a good average and not a high flyer as was pointed out to me in yr 4 when she was assest for the prep. DD didnt pass for Altrincham Girls ,but only by a very small margine, but she passed for Loreto. Loreto intakes from a wider percentage so i am told. DD hit the ground flying at Loreto due to the prep and all the tutoring but it wasnt long until her natural level soon became apparent. She is a hard worker and gives 100% so for her it has been fine she has kept up and achieved to the best of her ability, I have found the teachers to be very supportive when she has needed help. I not sure how the other grammars deal with the children who are not naturalA/A* students, but I am grateful in hindsight that DD didnt pass the Altrincham Girls Exam as at the time I wanted her to go there,( i foolishly thought that a school could make any child a genius!!!) as I know at entry level the cohort ability range is top say20% dont quote me on that as I dont know for sure, I just know it is narrower than Loreto. I do know she would have struggled there which can't be good for any child regardless of what help is at hand. The pressure can be on these children at grammar if they can't keep up if only for their self esteem. The exam is in place to find the children suitable for the school, sometimes parents like myself get a bit carried away with over preping/ tutoring etc giving a false result regarding the childs natural ability which would have been the case if DD had just scored a couple more marks at Alty. So I guess it may depend on the Grammar I can only speak for my DD' s and they have been wonderful and value hard work and a B, not all the girls are A* although a vast majority are!

[CarpeDiem]

I think you are very naive if you think GS students do not smoke. Many do however maybe they are sensible enough to do it away from the school gates. They also have their fair share of students with issues probably not ASBOs but things like Aspergers, ADHD etc. No school is full of perfect students it is how the issues are managed that makes a great school.

[countrymum]

With the benefit of hindsight I find this debate quite interesting. I can look back on our journey and at how sucked in I was, how seriously I took it all and how getting DD into a GS was the be all and end all of absolutely everything at that time. I put GS's on this pedestal and no other school would ever be as good. Now of course appreciating she is in a GS, you'd think great, but I have learnt although researching particular schools is important, you really have to think whether that school would suit the child in question. GS's aren't perfect little places, yes they smoke, yes they swear even at the seemingly best top performing ones.

The fact my DD's with other like minded individuals means she is naturally more motivated, but for me it isn't about a string of A*'s, it never has been about results for me, it's about a child feeling worthy, well nurtured, stretched but not pushed, and mostly being happy. DD doesn't come home sharing all her academic achievement's of the day but the friends she has made, the giggle she had with x on the way home, you know the important stuff to an 11 yr old

My DD I believe would be just as academically stretched at the alternative academy and knowing her work ethos and personality I'm sure would be happy there. What I'm saying is like any school you'll always have aspects that you are very happy with and little grumbles. It's what you make of it and how your child copes with the learning environment. The pressure IMO is intense at GS's, some children are fine with this, some crumble a little. If they are taught well and stretched as much at an alternative academy but the 'pressure' to perform isn't so great you may find confidence soars in an individual and they could perform just as well as any GS pupil. I have always enjoyed listening to opinions etc regarding grammars but ultimately have always followed my own nose, I know my child and hopefully, together, we've made the right choice. Good luck with it all!