AGGS 2016 draft admission criteria...

[tiffinboys]

I'm getting a bit muddled here, so Tiffins will have stage 1 nvr/vr then stage 2 English and maths

No... Both schools would now have 2 stage tests in English & Maths only.
Stage 1: multiple choice
Stage 2: standard format

NVR/VR being dropped by both schools.

[Catseye]

I'm getting a bit muddled here, so Tiffins will have stage 1 nvr/vr then stage 2 English and maths

No... Both schools would now have 2 stage tests in English & Maths only.
Stage 1: multiple choice
Stage 2: standard format

NVR/VR being dropped by both schools.

just because I've been to school does not make me an expert in all things educational, I know my limits of knowledge, but in my humble opinion the idea of English and Maths followed by more English and Maths sounds absurd to me .

It would be such a shame for such prestigious schools , two of the best state schools in the u.k

I think Tiffins is running in the wrong direction and is lost in more ways than one!

[enigma]

In my opinion, English is more tutorable than NVR or VR. You can teach and train a pupil beforehand about parts of speech, essay/creative writing, vocabulary, grammar, spelling and so on but you can't help his mind to excel in NVR or parts of VR more than what he can innately do. Whilst true that NVR/VR is tutorable in a sense that the system can be familiarized but that's all what is in it, all the rest are indeed a matter of IQ. The only real challenge that I can see with English is reading comprehension. Ideal test should be a test of basic mind potential not something that can be learned. Again, this is just my opinion, I stand to be corrected.

[tiffinboys]

It is also possible that grammar schools are trying to tackle the perpetual hostility against these schools. Since NVR/VR is not taught in primaries, it is said to be against the disadvantaged children. Now that most grammars in this part (Kingston/Sutton) and many others have done away with reasoning tests, the test in core subjects should in theory bring level playing field.

[enigma]

Anything that can be learned as knowledge brings an UNLEVEL playing field. A pupil taught in advance generally always wins the game. In the case of VR and NVR, just like a normal test, a pupil only has to learn how it is being done i.e. mechanics of the test and all pupils should be ok with that with just a very short period of time familiarizing. My DS spent only a short period familiarizing NVR and VR and passed the test for AGSB. We didn't allow him to take the test for St. Ambrose and Urmston as based from our reviews on English test, he still had to undergo long period of revising as his English knowledge from primary school is not enough to give him a level playing field with tutored pupils. Math, in my opinion although part-knowledge can easily be compensated. Generally a pupil who gets good score in NVR also gets good score in Math. Altrincham grammars made the right decision not to shift from NVR to English. (y)

[wilmslowmum]

Happy New Year, Slowly coming out of my Festive fog! Last year I was disappointed when AGBS were forced to change back to their original format. My DS has been at an independent school. They did study NVR and VR but not intensely, once a week from year 4 and never beyond the age range of the year, which is not enough for 11plus as they were technically a yr behind bearing in mind the September exam. Admittedly our school does prep more for the independent schools. The grounding my DS has had in Maths and English has been second to none, i think children from his school certainly have an advantage in both those subjects, hence me wanting English instead of NVR. I am not so sure changing to Maths and English makes a level playing field . Most of the NVRand VRmy son did was with me at home. Most parents wanting their child to go to grammar school will spend time doing the same. I think it is much harder for parents to teach English and Maths particularly if the primary school hasnt given the child a thorough grounding in the subjects. Having said that my DS previous prep school certainly were not as thorough so i guess it all depends on the school.

[Catseye]

such honesty is refreshing, if VR and NVR is so tutorable and easy than everyone would get 100% , why complain its marks in the bag surely!!

it took my children approx an afternoon to "tutor" the mechanisms of VR and NVR my DD struggled with NVR she got to about 80-90% after 4 GL practice papers after which she made no real progress(although was getting perfect or near perfect marks in VR, Maths and English) and my son from almost day 1 was hitting 95%+ in NVR he did not need 30 seconds but milliseconds to the point that even I was thinking he was cheating!!(having said that he is somewhat of a peculiar child, socially awkward , that's why we rejected ABGS and MGS in favor of an co-ed education and tbh being with girls has done him a world of good)

anyway hope your son fulfills his potential , I'm sure he will

[enigma]

such honesty is refreshing, if VR and NVR is so tutorable and easy than everyone would get 100% , why complain its marks in the bag surely!!

it took my children approx an afternoon to "tutor" the mechanisms of VR and NVR my DD struggled with NVR she got to about 80-90% after 4 GL practice papers after which she made no real progress(although was getting perfect or near perfect marks in VR, Maths and English) and my son from almost day 1 was hitting 95%+ in NVR he did not need 30 seconds but milliseconds to the point that even I was thinking he was cheating!!(having said that he is somewhat of a peculiar child, socially awkward , that's why we rejected ABGS and MGS in favor of an co-ed education and tbh being with girls has done him a world of good)

anyway hope your son fulfills his potential , I'm sure he will

11 Plus test should only be a test for a child's basic foundation and this is what generally expected from a VR and NVR types of test. Even Maths shouldn't need to include simultaneous equations, higher algebra or some forms of solid and analytic geometry. A basic math word problems involving simple equations is more than enough to give even a bright child a very good challenge - beyond this point of knowledge will be a catalyst for tutoring businesses to step-in and instigate a non-level playing field. English, like Science is something to be learned, nice bait for an 11 plus tutoring business. Again these are just basic mental foundations, factors on how a child copes with grammar school pressures is another story perhaps this was the reason why MGS came up with some kind of 2 days assessment that includes classroom and extra-curricular activities.

[tiffinboys]

TGS tests reportedly include passages from year 10 level books to test comprehension from children barely in first term of year 6.

[Catseye]

TGS tests reportedly include passages from year 10 level books to test comprehension from children barely in first term of year 6.

why stop there? let them do A level comprehension and be done with it! and send them straight to Oxford, why bother with the intervening 7 yrs?

it's getting crazier and crazier -and people think I'm off my head

there seems to be an arms race between these top schools to make entrance exams more and more intimidating for state kids (particularly those from ethnic minorities) with no support or knowledge how our antiquated selective school system works.

fortunately AGGS and ABGS was put well and truly in their places by an independent
adjudicator

btw t-boy I think although we may disagree on some issues you seem like a person who has the ability and convictions to challenge the school and maintain the high regard we hold Tiffins Schools in, even 200 miles away -go for an independent judicial review....but I may be assuming too much?