Prep School or State with tutoring?
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Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
My advice is go and look at each school and go for the one that your child will be happiest at. If they are happy they will succeed especially with encouraging parents behind them. You can worry about which high school, grammar, comp or indie they will be happiest at once they are in upper juniors and start to prepare for the next stage of their life then. If you choose a school only on which high school it prepares for then you may not be looking at the full picture for your child.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
Hi OP.
My first point is that I think your initial question might be wrong - we're in a different part of Trafford now (although I did go to UGS many moons ago!) but don't be under any illusions that you won't feel pressure to tutor even if your child goes to the local prep. My DS (at a local state school) plays in a football team with boys from a variety of schools (state and private) and all of them, without exception, were tutored during Year 5.
Secondly, as others have said you need to see the schools. Yes the prep school will have smaller class sizes and will dedicate more classroom time to preparation for the entrance exams when the time comes. However, the grammars are moving away from the format which can be more easily prepped (GL) and moving to CEM (which is deemed to be much more difficult to prep for (and the reason why one local prep school challenged a move away from GL to CEM - and more about finding the brightest children rather than the most tutored). I know some posters on here don't agree with that view but having just been through the entrance exams, that's my experience.
I think probably by the time your DS comes to take the entrance exam it is likely to be the old style 11+ - where everyone throughout Trafford takes exactly the same exam on the same day (probably CEM) so in my opinion the advantage of a prep school (so far as specific prepping for the entrance exam) will be diluted.
My first point is that I think your initial question might be wrong - we're in a different part of Trafford now (although I did go to UGS many moons ago!) but don't be under any illusions that you won't feel pressure to tutor even if your child goes to the local prep. My DS (at a local state school) plays in a football team with boys from a variety of schools (state and private) and all of them, without exception, were tutored during Year 5.
Secondly, as others have said you need to see the schools. Yes the prep school will have smaller class sizes and will dedicate more classroom time to preparation for the entrance exams when the time comes. However, the grammars are moving away from the format which can be more easily prepped (GL) and moving to CEM (which is deemed to be much more difficult to prep for (and the reason why one local prep school challenged a move away from GL to CEM - and more about finding the brightest children rather than the most tutored). I know some posters on here don't agree with that view but having just been through the entrance exams, that's my experience.
I think probably by the time your DS comes to take the entrance exam it is likely to be the old style 11+ - where everyone throughout Trafford takes exactly the same exam on the same day (probably CEM) so in my opinion the advantage of a prep school (so far as specific prepping for the entrance exam) will be diluted.
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
These are very general points based on my experience of having children in 3 prep schools in the south east.
1. The ability to pay gives you more choice. There is no guarantee that those choices are better than than other alternatives. But there is a better chance that you find a better match for your child, and as previous posts have highlighted, happy children often do well.
2. There are prep schools and prep schools. We had one which went to 13+ with the vast majority of boys heading for local independents, and a handful to Eton, Westminster etc. A handful of boys sat for and got into the local superselective grammar (Wilson's), but they were considered to be "too poor" for the independents. The prep didn't practice for the grammar schools at all - just gave out some practice papers for the summer holiday as they were preparing for the independent school tests. We had another prep to 11 where the majority of parents were aiming for a grammar place, with independent school as a back-up - all pupils had tutors. And another which fed into its own senior school, so no prep for 11+. Check carefully where children leave to from your local preps.
3. Whilst we saw mainly good teaching, the main influence on my dc were the peergroup. Disruptive children in a class will affect everyone's learning. Being in with bright children working towards the same aim will tend to be positive. Being the only child working for grammar schools is tricky, and it is very hard to motivate a child. Especially if the independent senior school is seen by their peers and their parents as being a better one than the grammar.
The problem with the peer group is that you won't know much about it until you start at a school. And yet it is so vital, that I ended up with children at different preps due to differences in their peergroups. Even a school which is seen to be a good school will have very different yeargroups going through it.
So, I would caution you against having a 10 year plan, and rather, given you do have the resources to pay either for fees or extras, be alert to how your dc is developing and be ready to step in if he isn't progressing as you would hope. You may be in the class in your local state where the majority of parent are aiming for grammars, thereby ensuring that all the children in that class progress well. Or you could end up in a smaller class ruined by the 4th and 5th sons of families who are seen to be stalwarts of the prep school, and whose children are disruptive. Whichever route you end up with, remember that you are responsible for your son's education - the school is there to help, but it isn't something that you should delegate entirely IMO.
1. The ability to pay gives you more choice. There is no guarantee that those choices are better than than other alternatives. But there is a better chance that you find a better match for your child, and as previous posts have highlighted, happy children often do well.
2. There are prep schools and prep schools. We had one which went to 13+ with the vast majority of boys heading for local independents, and a handful to Eton, Westminster etc. A handful of boys sat for and got into the local superselective grammar (Wilson's), but they were considered to be "too poor" for the independents. The prep didn't practice for the grammar schools at all - just gave out some practice papers for the summer holiday as they were preparing for the independent school tests. We had another prep to 11 where the majority of parents were aiming for a grammar place, with independent school as a back-up - all pupils had tutors. And another which fed into its own senior school, so no prep for 11+. Check carefully where children leave to from your local preps.
3. Whilst we saw mainly good teaching, the main influence on my dc were the peergroup. Disruptive children in a class will affect everyone's learning. Being in with bright children working towards the same aim will tend to be positive. Being the only child working for grammar schools is tricky, and it is very hard to motivate a child. Especially if the independent senior school is seen by their peers and their parents as being a better one than the grammar.
The problem with the peer group is that you won't know much about it until you start at a school. And yet it is so vital, that I ended up with children at different preps due to differences in their peergroups. Even a school which is seen to be a good school will have very different yeargroups going through it.
So, I would caution you against having a 10 year plan, and rather, given you do have the resources to pay either for fees or extras, be alert to how your dc is developing and be ready to step in if he isn't progressing as you would hope. You may be in the class in your local state where the majority of parent are aiming for grammars, thereby ensuring that all the children in that class progress well. Or you could end up in a smaller class ruined by the 4th and 5th sons of families who are seen to be stalwarts of the prep school, and whose children are disruptive. Whichever route you end up with, remember that you are responsible for your son's education - the school is there to help, but it isn't something that you should delegate entirely IMO.
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
I agree with the previous poster (albeit that Traffford is different and I've never heard of the local independent schools refusing admission to a child on the basis of being too poor if they've passed the entrance exams and the parents are willing to pay) with one caveat.
I don't necessarily agree that if your child isn't progressing as you want, you keep your options open about school or moving schools. It doesn't necessarily matter if parents are all aiming for grammar school for their children if those children are not bright enough to do well. I'm probably as guilty as the next pushy parent about having blinkers on about grammar school and it being the only option - until maybe last year. But it is not the right type of school for some children, no matter how much the parents want it or how much money they throw at their education. School is about more than that - as others have said, its about the child being happy.
I would say though that a small number of my children's friends sat the Urmston exam as a back up (I mean back up because its not local) - all of them passed, so you might be worrying about nothing. If your child is bright and you're focusing on your DS' education already and keen to support him at home (my advice would be to do whatever you can to develop a love of reading and books because boys tend to be better at maths) then you're doing the right things.
I appreciate that your Plan B might not be something you'd choose with Wellacre - maybe in your situation, I'd maybe consider saving the money you'd pay for prep so that you have more choices at senior school level if he doesn't pass.
I don't necessarily agree that if your child isn't progressing as you want, you keep your options open about school or moving schools. It doesn't necessarily matter if parents are all aiming for grammar school for their children if those children are not bright enough to do well. I'm probably as guilty as the next pushy parent about having blinkers on about grammar school and it being the only option - until maybe last year. But it is not the right type of school for some children, no matter how much the parents want it or how much money they throw at their education. School is about more than that - as others have said, its about the child being happy.
I would say though that a small number of my children's friends sat the Urmston exam as a back up (I mean back up because its not local) - all of them passed, so you might be worrying about nothing. If your child is bright and you're focusing on your DS' education already and keen to support him at home (my advice would be to do whatever you can to develop a love of reading and books because boys tend to be better at maths) then you're doing the right things.
I appreciate that your Plan B might not be something you'd choose with Wellacre - maybe in your situation, I'd maybe consider saving the money you'd pay for prep so that you have more choices at senior school level if he doesn't pass.
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Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
quote "....I agree with the previous poster (albeit that Traffford is different and I've never heard of the local independent schools refusing admission to a child on the basis of being too poor if they've passed the entrance exams and the parents are willing to pay) with one caveat."
I suspect LadyMuck meant "too poor" in the financial sense...ie the families had stumped up for private prep fees but were sitting for the state selective because they felt they could not afford (i.e. were too poor) to fund private secondary....
I suspect LadyMuck meant "too poor" in the financial sense...ie the families had stumped up for private prep fees but were sitting for the state selective because they felt they could not afford (i.e. were too poor) to fund private secondary....
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
Yes, kenyacowgirl. From our selection of 3 preps, at 2 of them the vast majority of boys went on to independent schools despite the fact that they also had grammar school places open to them. Only a handful went to the state grammar schools. The third prep was quite different in that they assumed that most parents would want a grammar school place, and would only opt for independent as a back-up. There were fewer swimming pools in the homes of the 3rd prep
No idea about the schools in Trafford though. Just pointing out that some prep schools are looking to feed into independent senior schools and that is what some parents are looking for.
No idea about the schools in Trafford though. Just pointing out that some prep schools are looking to feed into independent senior schools and that is what some parents are looking for.
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
I think that's why Trafford might be unique - I think the vast majority of preps, certainly in Trafford understand that the first choice of most parents (sweeping generalisation!) will be the state grammars because they are so good - they perform at the same level or better (results wise) than many of the independents and quite significantly are local. Of course there are parents that will opt for the independent irrespective of other choices, but actually the likes of Manchester Grammar / Withington Girls / Manchester High (the private independents) are some distance away and involve say a 7.30am bus from our area whereas the local state grammar would be a 10 minute walk.
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Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
Many thanks for all your responses, Homebird, Mandy21 and Ladymuck.
Ladymuck, I think Mandy21 is right, Trafford is a bit of an oddity, in that it's preps are mainly prepping for the 'free' Grammar schools and given the locations of the Manchester Independents for Trafford residents, parents are most likely to be focusing on them for secondary!
We are due to visit the state catchment primary soon, so we can compare this to what we've already seen at the prep school. It's frustrating that Trafford catchments are so tight that I've been told by neighbours you have 'no chance' of selecting a different primary school in the area, given they are all oversubscribed.
I think the comment about having a 10 year plan is true. Other options are to move house nearer the time if Grammar doesn't look like the right path for DS.
Ladymuck, I think Mandy21 is right, Trafford is a bit of an oddity, in that it's preps are mainly prepping for the 'free' Grammar schools and given the locations of the Manchester Independents for Trafford residents, parents are most likely to be focusing on them for secondary!
We are due to visit the state catchment primary soon, so we can compare this to what we've already seen at the prep school. It's frustrating that Trafford catchments are so tight that I've been told by neighbours you have 'no chance' of selecting a different primary school in the area, given they are all oversubscribed.
I think the comment about having a 10 year plan is true. Other options are to move house nearer the time if Grammar doesn't look like the right path for DS.
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Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
Mandy21 hope you don't mind I've sent you a PM.
Re: Prep School or State with tutoring?
Pay for the prep. You won't get much help from the teachers and then you will have the playground mindset from the parents. There are some fantastic tutors up your neck of the woods too if you choose the state route