It is currently Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:23 pm

 All times are UTC

 Page 1 of 1 [ 7 posts ]
 Print view Previous topic | Next topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:06 am

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:40 am
Posts: 3
Hello out there! Just joined and thankful for this place. I am tutoring my 10 yo daughter, and one of the types of questions she (occasionally) struggles with is what I think is referred to as the type 16. It's a sequence of paired letters. The one we just could not figure out was this:
BH is to YF as DJ is to _ _

Now that we know the answer - AH - I am struggling to see why A is the next sequential move. Here's my thinking:
B-H misses out 5 letters in the alphabet, going forwards.
Y-F misses out 6 letters going forwards in the continuous alphabet ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ etc
D-J misses out 5 letters in the alphabet going forwards, (therefore pairing with B-H's logic)
A-H misses out 6 letters in the alphabet going forwards - but why 'A'? Why is A the next in the sequence? What trends/sequences/relationships are there in the given pairs of letters that tells us the next step is to go to A? (I presume this 2nd pair needs to imitate the logic in Y-F's logic but can't see it for the trees and the fog and the red mist? )

Before I go stark raving mad, I would love some inspiration on this one. I'd also be very interested to know if there's a logicical strategy that I can learn and pass on to my daughter to help her do these when they come up.
Many thanks for any help!
Cheers
Chris

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:13 am

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 357
I think it is
B to Y = -3 letters
D to A = -3 letters
H to F = -2 letters
J to H = -2 letters

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 24
Actually what I saw was that there are two separate sequences here:
The B is related to Y and the H is related to the F

B's relationship to Y:
...WXYZABCDE... : sequence is count back 3

Similarly H is related to F by counting back 2
...DEFGHIJKL...

So applying that logic,
D would map to (count back 3 ) A and
J maps to (count back 2) H

So the answer is AH

What i have explained to my DC is that there can be two possible sequences, the obvious one and a less obvious one. I have found that when the letters are not "near" each other in the alphabet, there is often a less obvious association, so don't forget to look for that too.

Is this a question from standard format or multiple choice?

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:00 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2668
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

BH is to YF as DJ is to _ _

They are always treated as 2 separate sequences.

1st to 1st of each pair and then 2nd to 2nd of each pair.

1st to 1st ... how do you get from B to Y = minus 3
Apply minus 3 to D = A

2nd to 2nd .....how do you get from H to F = minus 2
Apply minus 2 to J = H

OR

B and Y are mirrors
Apply mirror to D = W

H to F still is minus 2, apply to J = H

Mirrors tend to be used for both letters, however occasionally they will mix a mirror with the normal method.
I get my children to check the whole section before starting to see if any are mirrors [takes only a few seconds but saves heartache and time]

This question should never be used for standard format because there are 2 answers.

Patricia

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:40 am
Posts: 3
This has been fabulously helpful - thank you everyone for responding so quickly and helpfully.

Patricia, your explanation describes exactly how I had been looking at those kinds of problems, but on this occasion I couldn't see the wood etc.

Again, very helpful all of you - thanks everyone.

Chris

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:15 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:40 am
Posts: 3
Just realised that I've not answered questions:

Darell, it was from a Susan Daughtrey VR Further practice Exercises (11+) booklet. Not multiple choice.

And Patricia, interestingly my daughter put WH as her initial answer, but marked it as wrong based on the answer sheets.

My view is, FWIW, these tests should strive to have only one possible answer, as having 2 possibles undermines the credibility of the test itself. Not mentioning the frustration ambivalence can produce! But then we're not in a Perfect World are we?

Top

 Post subject: Re: Help with Type 16 ( I think!)Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:28 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 357
You should read some of the discussions on here about some of the synonym and antonym questions! Some of those definitely have multiple answers!

Top

 Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending
 Page 1 of 1 [ 7 posts ]

 All times are UTC

#### Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

 You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
 Jump to:  Select a forum ------------------ FORUM RULES    Forum Rules and FAQs 11 PLUS SUBJECTS    VERBAL REASONING    MATHS    ENGLISH    NON-VERBAL REASONING    CEM 11 Plus GENERAL    GENERAL 11 PLUS TOPICS    11 PLUS APPEALS    11 PLUS TUTORS    INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS    11 PLUS CDs/SOFTWARE    11 PLUS TIPS    PRIMARY    SEN and the 11 PLUS    EVERYTHING ELSE .... 11 PLUS REGIONS    Berkshire    Bexley and Bromley    Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Wrekin    Buckinghamshire    Devon    Dorset    Essex    Essex - Redbridge    Gloucestershire    Hertfordshire (South West)    Hertfordshire (Other and North London)    Kent    Lancashire & Cumbria    Lincolnshire    Medway    Northern Ireland    Surrey (Sutton, Kingston and Wandsworth)    Trafford    Warwickshire    Wiltshire    Wirral    Yorkshire BEYOND 11 PLUS    Beyond 11 Plus - General    GCSEs    6th Form    University