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 Post subject: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:57 am

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:03 pm
Posts: 1413
I've been reading through the Bond How to do VR book. I then looked at paper 5 of GL assessment's 11+ practice papers, Pack 2. Question 46. I'm sure there is a more accurate/ efficient way of doing this, but I found all the letters it could be (as some letters were repeated in both outside words) and found the word STOP. The answers say this is correct but I don't know why the answer couldn't also have been STEP?

(fist [ ? ] prod]

Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong?!

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 Post subject: Re: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:13 pm

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8762
Location: Buckinghamshire
fatbananas wrote:
I found all the letters it could be (as some letters were repeated in both outside words) and found the word STOP. The answers say this is correct but I don't know why the answer couldn't also have been STEP?

(fist [ ? ] prod]

The "a" in read has come from either the second letter of "rare" or the third letter of "dead". Moving to the second set:

The second letter of fist is "i", which would give STIP;

The third letter of prod is "o", which gives STOP.

It cannot be STEP for the simple reason that neither "fist" nor "prod" contains the letter E.

When a question has so many possibilities the only way to solve them is to write the options above each other - in this case:

f t i p
s r o d

The word should then be fairly readily visible, but it requires quite a lot of concentration to work it out when there are repeated letters.

When there is only one repeated letter it is possible to skip over it by using what I used to call a "hangman", e.g. f r _ g can only be one word - "frog". It can save a few seconds in some cases.

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 Post subject: Re: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:14 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Warwickshire
fatbananas wrote:
I've been reading through the Bond How to do VR book. I then looked at paper 5 of GL assessment's 11+ practice papers, Pack 2. Question 46. I'm sure there is a more accurate/ efficient way of doing this, but I found all the letters it could be (as some letters were repeated in both outside words) and found the word STOP. The answers say this is correct but I don't know why the answer couldn't also have been STEP?

(fist [ ? ] prod]

Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong?!

The 3rd letter (a in "read" comes from either the 2nd letter of word 1 or the 3rd letter of word 2 - i.e. either I or O, therefore as it couldn't be E the answer could not be STEP

Full workings:

1st letter = 1st or 3rd of word 1 = F or S
2nd letter = 4th of word 1 or 2nd of word 2 = T or R
3rd letter = 2nd of word 1 or 3rd of word 2 = I or O
4th letter = 1st or 4th of word 2 = P or D

Giving possible combinations:
FTIP
FTID
FTOP
FTOD
FRIP
FRID
FROP
FROD
STIP
STID
STOP
STOD
SRIP
SRID
SROP
SROD

edit: I don't suggest you actually write out all the combinations - I just put them in for clarity to show that there was only one valid answer. Sally-Anne's approach of the options one above the other is a preferable/faster method.

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 Post subject: Re: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am
Posts: 2078
I was just going to answer but I see 2 other mods composing!

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 Post subject: Re: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:25 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:03 pm
Posts: 1413
Doh! I've just realized I've misread my own scrappy notes - of course there's no 'E' in there! Must improve handwriting and presentation!!!

Thanks for that explanation, Sally-Anne.

Quote:
When a question has so many possibilities the only way to solve them is to write the options above each other - in this case:

f t i p
s r o d

I wasn't sure if I was doing it correctly, when I had so many options. I, in fact, wrote them in a continuous line and, fortuitously, I could see STOP immediately.

In the Bond How to book it says to put 1234 etc above each outside word and then write the pattern above the middle word. However, DS had a 1212 pattern in his 8-9 VR book last night, but the first 12 was actually from the second word (if that makes any sense), so I was wondering whether to tell him to write 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A and 1B, 2B, 3B, 4B above the first and second word, so that it would help to remind him which 12 he needed to put where (I hope I'm explaining that correctly!), but would teaching him that method confuse him for any reason? Should he just try and remember which word he was extracting letters from? I thought there was room for error there in a pressured exam?

_________________
Seize the day ... before it seizes you.

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 Post subject: Re: VR - create words in the same wayPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8762
Location: Buckinghamshire
fatbananas wrote:
In the Bond How to book it says to put 1234 etc above each outside word and then write the pattern above the middle word. However, DS had a 1212 pattern in his 8-9 VR book last night, but the first 12 was actually from the second word (if that makes any sense), so I was wondering whether to tell him to write 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A and 1B, 2B, 3B, 4B above the first and second word, so that it would help to remind him which 12 he needed to put where (I hope I'm explaining that correctly!), but would teaching him that method confuse him for any reason? Should he just try and remember which word he was extracting letters from? I thought there was room for error there in a pressured exam?

I saw a friend's child doing that, and I was absolutely ! It just seemed so laborious, and the addition of numbers to letters must place a huge strain on working memory.

All my DSs did was say to themselves: "Where has the first letter of "read come from"? Either the first or third letter of "rare". Now go to the next set of words and write down the first and third letters of "fist". Repeat as required with each subsequent letter.

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