Question to Patricia
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Laura
VR question types
Thank you to everyone for clearing up the issue of question types I feel much better now. The Tiffin exam is multiple choice so of course there wouldn't be any anagrams, stupid of me not to think of that, it's just that for some reason my daughter really struggles with anagrams more than any other type of question which seems strange to me as I think the codes and number sequence questions are much harder. I will relax now and forget about it until after the summer holidays. What will be will be when it comes to the actual exam in December.
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Laura
technique for vr question types
Dear Patricia
Could you help me, my daughter just can't do two question types from the Susan Daughtrey Further Practice Exercises book they are type 25 where the numbers are written as a sum with numbers missing and type 27, both are maths questions. I have been told that they probably won't appear in the Tiffin exam but my daughter is really concerned that if they for some reason changed the exam this year and included these questions she just wouldn't be able to do them. I've tried to look at technique books but I find them quite hard to follow. As you know the Tiffin exam is very difficult and competition is fierce I want her to be as best prepared as possible, without her feeling inadequate or pressurised. Please help
Could you help me, my daughter just can't do two question types from the Susan Daughtrey Further Practice Exercises book they are type 25 where the numbers are written as a sum with numbers missing and type 27, both are maths questions. I have been told that they probably won't appear in the Tiffin exam but my daughter is really concerned that if they for some reason changed the exam this year and included these questions she just wouldn't be able to do them. I've tried to look at technique books but I find them quite hard to follow. As you know the Tiffin exam is very difficult and competition is fierce I want her to be as best prepared as possible, without her feeling inadequate or pressurised. Please help
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Laura
My daughter has just done a Bond VR practice paper. She would've scored 100% but for this question. She had to find the four letter word between two words in the sentence (very common type of question). She found the word 'undo' between two words but when I checked the answers the answer was 'scan'. Is the word 'undo' not considered a word in VR papers. Hope someone can clear up the confusion. My daughter was so disappointed because she thought she had scored %100.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Laura
We found the same sort of errors in the Bond book. I'm afraid that you will find errors of this type from time to time in most of the practice papers - there were several in Susan Daughtrey's books. Mike Edwards from The Tutors has put his hand up to one or two in the past (and hastened to get them corrected, of course)! It is just a matter of poor proofreading by the publishers.
However, beware the odd occasion when there actually is only one answer, for whatever reason. There are "trick questions" in the 11+ quite deliberately. Go back over the question with a fine toothcomb to be absolutely certain that it is an error. You can always post it on the forum to let others check for you.
The real NFER tests are piloted on quite a big sample, and the problem would be most unlikely to occur in a real test because of that.
Tell your daughter she got 100%, the publishers did not!
Sally-Anne
We found the same sort of errors in the Bond book. I'm afraid that you will find errors of this type from time to time in most of the practice papers - there were several in Susan Daughtrey's books. Mike Edwards from The Tutors has put his hand up to one or two in the past (and hastened to get them corrected, of course)! It is just a matter of poor proofreading by the publishers.
However, beware the odd occasion when there actually is only one answer, for whatever reason. There are "trick questions" in the 11+ quite deliberately. Go back over the question with a fine toothcomb to be absolutely certain that it is an error. You can always post it on the forum to let others check for you.
The real NFER tests are piloted on quite a big sample, and the problem would be most unlikely to occur in a real test because of that.
Tell your daughter she got 100%, the publishers did not!
Sally-Anne
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Laura
Dear Laura
You are quite right, if the Tiffin test is NFER multiple choice then S.Daugtrey types 25 and 27 will not come up. The test is probably no harder than any other NFER test, but will probably have a higher pass mark, due to the amount of children applying
Type 27 definitely not
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That would involve the child giving 4 answers out of 5 choices on a multiple choice sheet.
Type 25.
Probably the hardest for a 10/11 year old child, f I remember rightly Susan Daughtrey gives a number of methods for this one. I am inclined just to learn one rule and keep to it. It does involve a bit of 'process of elimination'
3, 4, 15, 16, 25, 30, 9 = [ - + ]
1] Take the LOWEST number and put it in after the second sign.
9 = [ - + 3 ]
2] REVERSE the 2nd operation
+ reversed = -
- reversed = +
x reversed = ÷
÷ reversed = x
9 = [ - - 3 ]
3] Take the number OUTSIDEthe brackets and use with the new operation and the number 3.... 9 - 3 = 6
4] Look at the remaining numbers 4 15 25 30 and the FIRST operation ie -
Are there TWO numbers from this list that when SUBTRACTED make 6 = NO
5] As the LOWEST number did not work, we have to take the next LOWEST number ie 4
9 - 4 = 5
Are there TWO numbers that when SUBTRACTED make 5 = YES 30 - 25 = 5
ANSWER FOUND 9 = [ 30 - 25 + 4 ]
The IMPORTANT RULES are to remember
A] Be LOGICAL start with theLOWEST number.
B] Remember to REVERSE the second operation.
C] Child MUST write it down, DO NOT rely on memory.
I think the important thing to remember is to ensure that the child KNOWS that this type is going to take them longer to work out and therefore MUST NOT panic over time taken.
Its the same for all codes, I tell my tutored children NOT to panic, just say to themselves ' Yes, I know these will take me longer, but it doesn't matter, I can make up the time elsewhere and ALLcodes are EASYmarks because ALL the information is there.
Patricia
PS It would probably be a good idea to print off this HOW TO, and complete some examples yourself from the book, it becomes easy with practice.
You are quite right, if the Tiffin test is NFER multiple choice then S.Daugtrey types 25 and 27 will not come up. The test is probably no harder than any other NFER test, but will probably have a higher pass mark, due to the amount of children applying
Type 27 definitely not
*204
*39
200*
____
86*2
That would involve the child giving 4 answers out of 5 choices on a multiple choice sheet.
Type 25.
Probably the hardest for a 10/11 year old child, f I remember rightly Susan Daughtrey gives a number of methods for this one. I am inclined just to learn one rule and keep to it. It does involve a bit of 'process of elimination'
3, 4, 15, 16, 25, 30, 9 = [ - + ]
1] Take the LOWEST number and put it in after the second sign.
9 = [ - + 3 ]
2] REVERSE the 2nd operation
+ reversed = -
- reversed = +
x reversed = ÷
÷ reversed = x
9 = [ - - 3 ]
3] Take the number OUTSIDEthe brackets and use with the new operation and the number 3.... 9 - 3 = 6
4] Look at the remaining numbers 4 15 25 30 and the FIRST operation ie -
Are there TWO numbers from this list that when SUBTRACTED make 6 = NO
5] As the LOWEST number did not work, we have to take the next LOWEST number ie 4
9 - 4 = 5
Are there TWO numbers that when SUBTRACTED make 5 = YES 30 - 25 = 5
ANSWER FOUND 9 = [ 30 - 25 + 4 ]
The IMPORTANT RULES are to remember
A] Be LOGICAL start with theLOWEST number.
B] Remember to REVERSE the second operation.
C] Child MUST write it down, DO NOT rely on memory.
I think the important thing to remember is to ensure that the child KNOWS that this type is going to take them longer to work out and therefore MUST NOT panic over time taken.
Its the same for all codes, I tell my tutored children NOT to panic, just say to themselves ' Yes, I know these will take me longer, but it doesn't matter, I can make up the time elsewhere and ALLcodes are EASYmarks because ALL the information is there.
Patricia
PS It would probably be a good idea to print off this HOW TO, and complete some examples yourself from the book, it becomes easy with practice.
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Mike Edwards
Dear Mike
No it cannot be 9 - 4 + 25 = 30
I am having problems creating spaces when I write a post [ I need some tuition please ] will try to edit.
The question is
3, 4, 15, 16, 25, 30,....9 = [ - - ] 2 of the numbers 3,4,15,16,25 and 30 have to be used to create the sum where 9 is the answer. I wrote out the question as Susan Daughtrey depicts it.
Shall I write another example with different operations?
Patricia
No it cannot be 9 - 4 + 25 = 30
I am having problems creating spaces when I write a post [ I need some tuition please ] will try to edit.
The question is
3, 4, 15, 16, 25, 30,....9 = [ - - ] 2 of the numbers 3,4,15,16,25 and 30 have to be used to create the sum where 9 is the answer. I wrote out the question as Susan Daughtrey depicts it.
Shall I write another example with different operations?
Patricia
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Mike Edwards
Hi Patricia
Thanks for the explanation, I think the second posting should be [ - + ].
This is another type of question, along with anagrams, that I think would be difficult to construct for multiple-choice question papers.
A few years ago I found a site where I could download 100 question types for verbal reasoning, unfortunately it has been filed under "pile" and has probably been binned.
If anyone knows where I can obtain a comprehensive list of verbal reasoning type questions I would be grateful.
Regards
Mike
Thanks for the explanation, I think the second posting should be [ - + ].
This is another type of question, along with anagrams, that I think would be difficult to construct for multiple-choice question papers.
A few years ago I found a site where I could download 100 question types for verbal reasoning, unfortunately it has been filed under "pile" and has probably been binned.
If anyone knows where I can obtain a comprehensive list of verbal reasoning type questions I would be grateful.
Regards
Mike
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Laura
To Patricia
Thank you for your help with these maths questions, my daughter is still only nine and I think they are incredibly difficult for a young child. Maths is not my strongest subject so any help with explanations is much appreciated. You're right when you say children panic because they take longer to answer some questions, my daughter finds codes fairly easy but they do take her longer to work out and she worries about the time she is spending on them but she finishes the practice papers in the allocated time, so it must balance out somewhere. That's where the CD is good because it shows you exactly how long you have spent on each question. It's so good to have someone like you to help when we get stuck. Good job it's my daughter doing the 11+ and not me I would be hopeless, vocab fine, maths and codes not.
Thank you for your help with these maths questions, my daughter is still only nine and I think they are incredibly difficult for a young child. Maths is not my strongest subject so any help with explanations is much appreciated. You're right when you say children panic because they take longer to answer some questions, my daughter finds codes fairly easy but they do take her longer to work out and she worries about the time she is spending on them but she finishes the practice papers in the allocated time, so it must balance out somewhere. That's where the CD is good because it shows you exactly how long you have spent on each question. It's so good to have someone like you to help when we get stuck. Good job it's my daughter doing the 11+ and not me I would be hopeless, vocab fine, maths and codes not.