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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:54 pm
Posts: 34
Hello all wise people,

I'm looking up the performance data for grammar schools in Sutton and noticed that Wilson's School differs from other schools (SGS and WCGS) in that the number of students taking GCSE at Wilson's is about 40 students higher than the number of students taking A Levels. Government data as at 2019.

SGS, WCGS, and even Tiffin, all have higher number of students taking A levels compared to GCSE.

All of these schools admit new students into sixth forms where A levels is the only qualification offered.

The data suggest that a number of Wilson's students leave the school after GCSE. Is this correct?

In addition, on the school's website in 2018 there were 155 students reporting A level grades, a year later the number dropped to 133. What happened between 2018 and 2019?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:24 pm
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Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
I don't know in particular about Wilson's so hope someone can come along to shed insight.

However I will share what happens in our area of SE London as it may have a bearing. There are just two Grammars, single sex 11-16 then co-ed at sixth form. They each fall in and our of favour. At one point DD's school was struggling to retain a good sized sixth form and its Y7 intake was 160 and it's L6 was about 110, the boy's school upped the number of places in their sixth form and that had a big impact on the girl's school. DD's year and they have about 200 in the L6 as the boy's school has a bit of a reputation for poor pastoral care so more of the girls are staying on rather than heading over the boy's sixth form for a change. It has also improved is reputation in sciences. Give it a few years and who knows, it may swing back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:39 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:54 pm
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Thanks Fiona

I've seen the pattern of girls grammar schools losing pupils to co-ed sixth forms at boys grammars at various places so Bromley appears to be the norm rather than the exception.

Kingston, Dartford, Chelmsford, Colchester, to name a few, all see this pattern year after year.

Sutton is no exception where SGS takes in girls from other girls grammar schools.

However Wilson's being boys only all-through losing pupils after GCSE is quite an exception.

I hope other wise observers will be able to shed some light.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
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was this a bulge year where they had to take another form? these are numbers leaving sixth form so not the same but they show variation - this year it looks like at least 150+ are entered for A levels so presume they are the GCSE pupils from 2019

2017 leavers = 140

2018 leavers were 156

2019 leavers were 134


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
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Location: Essex
If Wilson's is the grammar school with no priority admissions area, presumably some of the further-flung year 11s may vote with their feet at 16 and go somewhere more local for 6th form?

The sixth form admissions policy says that there is no minimum number intended to admit as external applicants, only that places will be offered if there are vacancies once all eligible internal applicants have been considered. To me, this would imply that they only intend to make up their numbers to the original PAN for the year group (with a bit of 'easing' wrt the subjects to give viable class sizes?), rather than a deliberate intention to increase numbers at year 12, as e.g. the school DS2 was at here does.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:38 pm
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I have heard that boys in Wilsons are expected to meet the minimum requirements in certain courses to take them for sixth form so if they do not meet this they would have to move in Sixth form. Of course, there will always be those who move either to private schools or due to travel distance. However, 'weeding out the weaker students' does take place. This also tends to happen before GCSE too but to a lesser extent. Nothing new as this happens in a lot of the top comprehensive schools in London!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 am
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All state schools have minimum requirements for sixth form entry. However, they would be acting unlawfully if they are ‘weeding out weaker students’ just prior to GCSE or mid A level.

Quote:
It is unlawful to exclude for a non-disciplinary reason. For example, it would be unlawful to exclude a pupil simply because they have additional needs or a disability that the school feels it is unable to meet, or for a reason such as: academic attainment/ability;…
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ersion.pdf

There is an article here about asking pupils to resit the year as another form of coercion.
https://inews.co.uk/news/education/lond ... -12-342389


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:30 pm 
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Yes, agree its unlawful. Although, don't think many parents are aware and often don't challenge it when they are at the receiving end. The main reason why schools get away with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:02 pm 
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This is shocking. I’d be interested to know which schools other than Wilson’s are known to do it. I had heard similar stories about independent schools but was not aware it was common practice for grammars.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:19 pm 
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Boys are expected to get minimum of 3Cs to continue from AS to A level.

A recent Ofsted visit did actually address this and considered it all above board:
https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50148552


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