Comments from a Sutton parent

[mad?]

Hi suttonparent. Perhaps your posts do not give the impression of being in genuine interest of seeing

a credible argument offered by the out-of-towners,

You may like to look at this thread http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 19&t=16182
where the topic has been debated with courtesy in Kent.
I do not have strong views on this either way but

Secondly, you can move. If you don't like Merton or Lambeth, find a better place to live. Why should anyone be allowed to live in one area and send their kids to another one? It does nothing for the local community, and just contributes to increasing neighbourhood deprivation. Thirdly, you can go private. There are dozens of good independent schools available in this part of Greater London, and the 15k a year it will cost can be offset by not buying a new car every other year or ditching the fortnights in Bali and the skiing holidays. Put your money **********, in other words (and in the most polite of intonations, of course).

These options are only available to the wealthy.

3. Public services are typically used by the community in which they are located - that's a simple fact. Think police, NHS, etc. How would you feel if you went to register at your local doctors' surgery and found your self turned away? "I'm very sorry, Sir, but we only offer our services to healthy people. But we don't discriminate - we take healthy people from everywhere! So run along to the surgery five miles up the road, where they'll be happy to look after you..." It doesn't really add up, does it?.

So do you want these schools to be for local people, or for people who live in Sutton? Not one and the same thing.
Either way surely any form of selective education (ability, gender, religion etc) with be disadvantaging some local children and preventing them from attending their nearest school?

[ob1]

should be allowed to effectively swap their child's failing school for my local good one.

Consequently starving their failing local school of good pupils - a downward spiral.
Not very community minded.

Good luck with the meeting tomorrow.

[Giulio]

1. can't comment on Greenwich ins and outs

2. many people cannot go private even if they wanted to, have no car, do no holiday abroad, or simply a private school environment might not be for them
moving also costs money, not everybody can, commuting to school might be the only solution,
lobbing your LEA does not produces good schools overnight

3. public services are not by catchment area
my children were born at different hospitals around the capital and different hospital are good a different things, you might need to go the other side of London for that transplant, and so on
not to mention medical turism or A&E (imagine you are away from work from home, got an accident and not getting assistance by Police or A&E because you are not from the area, unthinkable)
public services provided locally are used mainly be local people, but they cannot exclude non-local people
also the concept of "local" is subjective
my "local" school might still be a 30 min commute, not that different from a 50 min commute to Sutton


PS
I would be mighty "upset" (I can't swear can I) had I moved to Sutton for grammar schools and not getting in, and having to pay private school fees. That by itself does not make the case stronger.
On the other hand, if someone can afford to move and to pay private fees, that someone would not seem to be a disadvantaged, but of course specific situations might be different.

[lambbone]

I do think that there is an argument which can be made for drawing a reasonably narrow catchment for schools in any given area (not just Grammar schools). I am not, however, convinced that Suttonparent is making it.

Suttonparent was unable to find a place at a Grammar School when he moved into the borough when his/her child was in year 8. This is only to be expected as no school will keep places unfilled on the off-chance that people will move into the district. And how does Suttonparent know that it was out of borough children that were preventing his/her son from obtaining a place? Has Suttonparent's child actually sat an entrance test for one of the Grammar schools?

I do not of course know Suttonparent's circumstances, nor are they my business, but had I been asked for advice I would have strongly recommended that any move be made prior to transfer to secondary school, as most sought-after schools will be full after then.

I do think that the year 8 child is a red herring for those reasons, and I would suggest to Suttonparent that at the public meeting on Wednesday s/he restricts his/her argument to transfer at the end of year 6.

In addition, I think Suttonparent will get a more sympathetic hearing at the meeting if s/he does not make the claim that s/he had to send his/her child to a private school. No-one has to do that. It was Suttonparent's choice - which it was his/her right to make, as it is anyone's right.

I should like to see Suttonparent sticking to such points as the benefits for the local community of children attending schools near their home (just to offer an example), and not attacking parents who do send their children across borough boundaries, or characterising them as wealthy usurpers, which I suspect is neither justified nor helpful.

My only interest is to see a productive, good tempered meeting on Wednesday at which a selection of valid arguments are aired, rather than a slanging match.

[Plum]

I grew up in the LB of Sutton and so did my husband. Both our parents still live in the borough. I probably do more shopping and spend more money in that area than my own. We bought our first flat in Wallington but had to move further out to get anything bigger. I would happily move closer to my mother, as she is now on her own and has alzheimer's but it is too expensive. I will be looking at putting her in the next year or so. The one I have in mind is in the LB of Croydon. This means that although my mum has lived in Sutton for over 40 years, Croydon will eventually be contributing to her care (when her savings run out). Is this fair to Croydon residents - No but it is how the system works. The same goes for schools. We are near the boundry of Croydon & East Surrey. Children in the area are constantly crossing boundaries to go to their chosen and sometimes most local school.

Whatever system is in place, discriminates against someone. You only have to look at the proposals to scrap child allowance. Life ain't fair!

[Etienne]

This is only to be expected as no school will keep places unfilled on the off-chance that people will move into the district.

That is correct. It would be unlawful under the Admissions Code. Anyone applying for a popular school other than at the normal point of entry could well have difficulty.

[suttonparent]

Well, it's good to some reasonable attempts at argument coming out, even if they are misguided. But let me correct a couple of (mis)assumptions initially.

Firstly, it wasn't entirely my decision to move (back) into the borough. You might like to consult my previous employer on that one!

Secondly, I have no truck with kids who live outside but close to Sutton's borders taking a school place here. I did point out in my initial posting the notion of 'parish boundaries', which allows children who live within a radius of, for example, two or three miles from a school, to attend their nearest one, even if it's not part of their own borough. This would mean, in Sutton's case, schools such as Wilson's and Glenthorne being able to offer places to kids from Croydon and Merton, respectively, etc.

What I fail to appreciate is why those who live in non-neighbouring boroughs should be allowed to come in and poach places, and cause children from this borough to have to apply for places in Merton, for example, whose educational record is hardly inspiring.

As for no surplus places being available, I can appreciate that. There should, however, be some flexibility in the school system, rather than having it run at maximum occupancy levels in which many of those kids taking places have no links with the borough.

[hermanmunster]

unfortunately current funding practices do not allow schools to aim to run at anything but full capacity.

In some schools cases it would be unfair on those on waiting lists if they were not allowed in. Here in Skipton all children (whether local or not ) can usually take up a grammar school place if they pass the test.

However over a relatively short period of time a waiting list appears of children at comprehensives a little further away or children who move somewhere nearby (not necessarily catchment) after the start of the year.

When places become available they offer them to the kids - no saving any places in case?? in case what ? in case someone else moves in a bit closer? no I can't see how you can expect a grammar school to be immediately available to you on moving in year 8 even in an area that can normally admit all those who pass.

[sherry_d]

Is this a wind up or a troll?

How sad if it is to otherwise hijack what was going to be a useful debate. It just doesnt seem real and there seem to be other motives other than one's own kids. Call me cynical but I am in this case. I notice username has been changed from something more fishy to something more soapy.

[Plum]

Schools don't like to keep empty places "just in case" as the local authority can insist they take children excluded from other schools.