Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

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loopylou
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by loopylou »

If the 'last distance offered' at the comp this year does not extend as far as your house, you will not get a place whether you put it first or second or third (you might get in from the waiting list eventually but if siblings and oversubscriptions mean that you don't meet this year's distance criteria, you will not get in on initial allocations no matter where you place it).
The answer however is not to put Tiffin second. If you put Tiffin second and you manage to meet the distance criteria for your first choice comp, you will be allocated the comp and not get a place at Tiffin even if your daughter scores very well on the test.

Obviously if that happened and your daughter had done fantastically well on the test, she could join the Tiffin waiting list and be reasonably certain of a place. But its not guaranteed. Tiffin might not take very many from the waiting list at all next year. And the danger is that if 4 or 5 or 10 other girls with equally brilliant results have done the same thing (ie hedged their bets putting another school as their first choice with a view to joining the Tiffin waiting list and having 2 offers to choose between over the Summer) then your daughter may lose the option of a Tiffin place despite more than qualifying in terms of her score.
Do not underestimate how competitive Tiffin is. It sounds like you can be reasonably confident of your daughter gaining a place if she is top of her current school but nobody can bank on putting Tiffin as second choice and then scoring so brilliantly on the day that they are bumped far enough up the waiting list to get a place. That is a very dangerous tactic if you have your heart set on going to Tiffin.

Basically if Tiffin is your definite preference, you have nothing to gain and everything to lose by putting the comp first. If the distance criteria for the comp next year includes your house, your DD will definitely get her place there should the Tiffin exam go badly on the day. And if your house falls just outside of catchment this year, you will not get a place there no matter what position you put it on your form.
loopylou
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by loopylou »

mad? put it much better than I did.

The point overall is that there is no way you can fill in the form to guarantee that, if your daughter doesn't get Tiffin, she definitely gets the comp instead. Either your house will be close enough this year or it won't be.

* If your house is close enough and you put the comp as second choice (and if the exam day goes badly), your daughter will definitely get a place at the comp.
* If your house is not close enough this year (and exam day goes well), your daughter will go to Tiffin
* If your house is close enough (and the exam day goes well), your daughter will get whichever school you put as first choice. If that's the comp, and if your daughter's Tiffin score is excellent and if relatively few other girls have done the same thing and if Tiffin is not full or if Tiffin gets a lot of rejections you may then get a place from the waiting list but that's a lot of 'ifs' hence everyone saying this is a dangerous tactic.

* The worst case scenario (unlikely from all you say) is that exam day goes badly and your house is also too far away to get a place at the comp in which case you would be looking at getting your third choice school. In this case, it wouldn't matter that you had put Tiffin and the comp as first and second choice as you wouldn't qualify for either. You always get the highest ranked school that you qualify for.
WOTMum
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by WOTMum »

Thank you mad? and loopylou especially for laying out the various scenarios. I do follow exactly what you say, just wanted to factor in that "tactic" as you call it, because I appreciate that many parents trying for other grammars will employ it, but not sure people whose only other choices are comps would risk it. I will put Tiffin first as I always planned, if DD has a bad day on exam day we will be no better off, if she has a great day, we could be worse off and I'm not willing to build in yet another variable to the equation. Thanks again.
loopylou
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:08 am

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by loopylou »

I think you are right. I could see for example parents who had more than one grammar school on their form perhaps deciding to do this. But even then it is only worth doing if the parents consider both grammar schools equal and are reasonably certain of their child doing very well in the Tiffin exam. If their child was very able and had two very good exam days, they could then be in the position of securing one grammar school place and getting an additional offer from Tiffin waiting list coming later in the Summer. In effect they might end up with two grammar school places to choose between.

But even then they will still have to make the decision. Their child can only start at one school and if there is so little between the schools that they are manoeuvring to extend their period of choice, then it probably just proves there isn't much to choose between them. The only scenario I could see this tactic benefitting is a family who plan to move once they've secured a grammar school place. Their child could sit the Tiffin and the Kent or Sutton papers and then, having secured one offer plus an additional offer from the Tiffin waiting list, they might give themselves more housing options to choose from when moving over the Summer. Otherwise I don’t really see the benefit of holding on to two grammar school places that are equally good. And if they aren't equally good then you would have been able to make a first and second choice back in the October.
mitasol
Posts: 2756
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 am

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by mitasol »

I'm still not sure you've grasped the equal preference system.
wotmum wrote:but not sure people whose only other choices are comps would risk it
You do not risk anything by placing the comp second. All the people who list a school either first, second or last preference will be considered together equally. They will all be placed together on one list, in rank order based on the over subscription criteria. Preference has no bearing on the school list. It is only at the final stage that the LEA will allocate the highest school for which you qualify.

I really cannot stress this more strongly. Place the schools you want in the order of your true preference. If you deviate from your genuine order of preference you have nothing to gain and everything to lose!
hermanmunster
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by hermanmunster »

Locally there was a girl who lived within yards of the grammar school, the parents were concerned that if she did not pass the test then she would not get a place at the oversubscribed comprehensive in the next LEA if it was not top of the list. So they put that comprehensive first and the GS second. She passed the 11 plus and would have been guaranteed a place at the GS (in catchment) but was given the comprehensive as that was first on her list. It was a heavily oversubscribed year so no luck in getting in. If she had not passed the 11 plus she still would have got the comprehensive place.
Doblinski
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by Doblinski »

We live nearer to Tiffin but had this conundrum as we live just outside the Kingston borough and have a good comp down the road. We put Tiffin first on the form as that was our first choice school and our local comp second. I double-checked with our LEA that this would not jeapardise the second choice comp place, and were told that the comp do not find out who puts them first, second or third, you get in based on selection criteria whatever that maybe (in our case favourable).

DD did Tiffin exam and passed. We were then offered the option of accepting Tiffin but remaining on the comp list, or accepting Tiffin and turning down the comp place. I'd always liked the comp and so accepted Tiffin and went on comp waiting list to make sure it was what DD wanted. We were then offered a comp place in April which sent us parents into a total spin - we like both schools. But DD was adamant that it was the GS, and knowing how precious all school places are, we turned down the comp place quickly. It was a luxury to have two fab school choices at once, but I nearly went grey wandering what to do for the best. Hope this helps?
Doblinski
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Surrey Preferences and Tiffin Girls - Help please!

Post by Doblinski »

Alternatively, and a bit of an aside, a friend applied to Tiffin and the local comp for her DC (both on the LEA form) and thirdly applied to an independent school (where a direct application was made - so LEA was unaware of it).

The child did not pass the Tiffin exam, but did pass the inde exam. The Inde school place was accepted and fees paid by my friend. Then because of the failure to pass the Tiffin exam, her second choice school - the comp, became her first choice school, and she was offered a place there too. My friend accepted this additional school place and hung onto it for weeks 'just in case'. So those awaiting a comp place, and possibly losing hope, places do become available fairly late on in proceedings :roll:
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