Do you really have to be a high level 5?

[mmb]

I am not sure if there could be a direct comparison made between levels achieved at primary school and performance at the grammar school exam.

None of the children at my DD’s school was above level 4A at the end of year 5 but 6 kids from her school scored more than minimum pass marks for Slough Consortium (varies from 112 to 129).

DD was trading between 4A/4B in various subjects at the end of yr 5. We came to know about grammar school selective exam around March 2011 and DD effectively got around 6 months to prepare before her first exam for Nonsuch in Sep. Though we are waiting for the final verdict on 1st March, but she scored well in the results declared so far (358 in Nonsuch and 121 in Slough Consortium).

My biggest satisfaction came from the fact that DD’s grades improved in reading/writing as she prepared for the grammar school selection exam. It is still helping her in year 6 as she now reached 5c/5b level as per the outcome of the latest mock SAT exam in her primary school. This is an indication of the fact that she is a normal student but with some preparation could manage to score well in the grammar school exams.

On a different note, is there any level above 5a for the primary schools i.e. if the kids achieve level 5a at the end of year 5 (as some other threads also suggests) then what level will they reach to at the end of year 6?

[2outof3]

Thanks everyone for posting - I'm sure I'm not the only one finding the results interesting and helpful.

It looks as if I shouldn't give up hope yet and maybe my DS will be one of the ones that fly through year 5 . I do think he's bright (don't we all but as a summer born baby and a boy at that (!), he doesn't yet seem to have the maturity currently required to check his work and focus for long enough. I'm hoping that this explains the difference between his CATS and his current SATs . Whatever happens, I'll know that the work we do will help him for the future.

It does look though that to have a chance you do need to be at least a level 4A and preferably somewhere in the 5s. Well we can but try, but I've certainly had my eyes opened to what we're up against - there are alot of very bright children out there

Fingers crossed for all of you waiting to hear on 01 March and hopefully everyone will get a school where their child will be happy and thrive

[tiffinboys]

With your experience of having 2 DCs in grammars, your DS will do it when cruch time comes. After all, he now has 3 tutors in home. Sure we will hear the good news in March next year.

[2outof3]

Thanks Tiffinboys - I'll try to share your faith but I think there would be bloodshed if DS' sisters tried to tell him how to do anything! The girls didn't have to sit an English exam for any of their entrance tests either so it really feels like we're doing this for the first time!

[supermummy]

I'm almost reluctant to post this as I know that some parents/ tutors will use this as a benchmark rather than a warning but here goes...

If you are 'aiming' at level 5 for year six you are almost certainly pitching too low. As some have already observed, primary schools only test to that level so that's as high as you will know.

Above can be anything up to level 7/ GCSE. DD1 scored 100% in all SATs and was given 6a across the board but we knew she was higher because she was already at GCSE level for maths alone (please don't judge she's still a sullen teen now so go figure).

What I want to impress is that even at this level she is in the top quarter but by no means well ahead of all of her peers at her indie. I would suggest looking at the papers/ prep for top indies (e.g. SPGS, LEH, MGS) to give an indication.

Given the locality there is likely to be strong overlap between the girls applying for indies/grammars. While strong children can compete my experience is that many state schools just do not cover the material leaving that gap to be filled by parents (in our case) or tutors. Add N/VR to that and it is a very tall order indeed. I woud encourage parents to take a realistic look at their child's ability because there are some really high performers.

[tiffinboys]

You are absolutely right, suppermummy. Some children could attain much higher level than 5, even at state primary.

Indie Preps are altogether different ball game. The children there prepares for the likes of Eton, King's, St. Pauls, LEH etc, and for 13+ exams. The education methodology is different. Class size, teacher ratio, Parents' resources and awareness level is different. Even the intake is quite different than the state primary.

The point is when the majority of children (I think over 90% are in State schools) have not been educated to go above level 5 and the national expectation is just level 4; should state grammars have entrance tests pitched at level above 5?

[mad?]

The point is when the majority of children (I think over 90% are in State schools) have not been educated to go above level 5 and the national expectation is just level 4; should state grammars have entrance tests pitched at level above 5?

Excellent question.

[heartmum]

First DC (now in YB at grammar) was level 4a English and 4b Maths at the end of year five, by end of Y6 was L5a English and 5b Maths! And doing extremely well at their school

Second DC (currently Y5) is predicted to be 5C English, 5C/B Maths by end of Y5; however having gone through the 11+ process once still does not mean that they will qualify. I know of DCs who, already working at 5a for English/Maths at end of Y5, did not qualify for the 11+ test in Y6.

Test are based on academic ability obviously, but other factors must be taken into account, i.e. how do they cope in test situations, how much prep did they do prior to the test - not just in the content of the tests but being in that pressured environment ....

Sadly there are many children of very high academic ability who fail to make the grade on the 'day' due to nerves/pressure.

[tiffinboys]

Following is the extract from Tiffin Girls School website re admission arrangement, updated to provide clarification about Stage 2 test.

"Stage 2 testing will include three tests which will assess numeracy and literacy: one each
of mathematics, reading and writing. These tests will be at an appropriate level of
challenge to determine the offer of places at the school and will be guided by the content
of the Primary National Curriculum. For guidance only: the level of challenge of these
tests will be appropriate for candidates anticipated to achieve Level 5 at the end of Year
6."

http://www.tiffingirls.kingston.sch.uk/ ... _entry.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to the School for promptly issuing clarification.

[jjmumoftwo]

I could add my own experience, but it wouldn't help this discussion, but I think Level 5 is a good indicator but you shouldn't rule out attempting the process if you think your child is bright even if they haven't quite reached that level.

Many children have been tutored in my childrens school (a state school). This just widens the gap more for the brighter children being tutored to those not attempting the selection process. I therefore believe that tutoring in weak areas in Year 5 particularly can be beneficial to all children, but wouldn't underestimate the benefit of reading reading reading. It greatly helped my son.

If you think your child is bright, I would just say go for it. If you don't you'll never know and always wonder. I don't think some children should be put through the process if they are going to get too stressed by either the tests or the results, but it can be a good experience for them if parents don't pile on the pressure, and they don't feel they have failed if they don't get in. I just feel its better to have tried and failed than not to have tried even if you think there is only a small chance.