Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

[tiffinboys]

Tiffins were over-subscribed even when they had 100% catchment. It was again over-subscribed when they changed to proximity rules. And they had extremely good results.

The reason Tiffins are now seems too desirable is that it is one of the few schools where any one can apply. Even when other grammar is within 5 minutes walk from home.

[tabasco]

If they already had great results with 100% catchment or using proximity as their selective criteria, there must be a reason for them to change it to openly selective. May be to get even better results and eventually be the top school of the country. HBS is the best example. Of course Tiffin Schools will always be over subscribed until there is a better school set up next to them.

[tiffinboys]

If they already had great results with 100% catchment or using proximity as their selective criteria, there must be a reason for them to change it to openly selective. May be to get even better results and eventually be the top school of the country. HBS is the best example. Of course Tiffin Schools will always be over subscribed until there is a better school set up next to them.

The reason for change was not the attempt to improve the already great results. There were other reasons, which are well discussed in last year threads.

Even if there is another school next to Tiffin, it will be over-subscribed until it is a grammar school.

[tabasco]

In all walks of life, open competition always yield the best results and schools are no exception. The hypothetical schools I mentioned could be any type of state school not necessary a grammar school as long as they are considered better than The Tiffins. Of course any good schools will be over subscribed no matter where they are. I am sure if HBS moved to the vicinity of Kingston it will be more popular based on the current status. When anyone have a choice they usually go for the "supposedly better one".

[tiffinboys]

Totally agree with you tabasco. However, as I have mentioned earlier, Kingston children are not getting level playing field as most other grammars are not open selectives. I have no problem if all grammars were open selectives - until then Kingston cannot afford to be open selective, with applicants number touching 2000 numbers.

As far as HBS is concerned, it is matter for the parents of Barnet borough. Perhaps, there are many good selectives or partially selectives around.

[twelveminus]

Most people don't have access to a grammar school at all........

How is that children from Kingston should suffer because your LA abolished or never had grammar schools?

Why should my children suffer because they don't live in Kingston?

If you want a local school, then Kingston will give you one.

If you want a selective school, it seems a bit churlish to complain that it's too selective for your child.

Hampton/Lady Eleanor Holles School are private, 2 miles up the road, and they bus in from Ascot, Windsor, Woking, etc.

Ever wonder, why other grammars have catchment area or proximity rules? Some areas have 14 to 31 grammars, where OOC stand almost no chance. Why Kingston has to fill the gap for your area?

My children are at a private school, and some people live 10+ miles away. This idea that there is some arbitrary distance that is 'too far' is just one of the many nonsensical ways state schools discriminate. My children's school is quite straightforward - pay the £12k and you get in. It doesn't cause issues.

The idea that setting arbitrary distinctions based on postcode/distance is somehow fairer than simply selecting the highest scoring pupils is nonsense.

Clearly Kingston are very forward-thinking in not discriminating on the basis of property ownership/residence, as if schools were 19th century voting rights or something.

Of all the many deeply discriminatory practices, e.g., teeny-tiny catchment areas of outrageously expensive housing, polishing the brass in the church, being baptised before 12 months, and whatever other nonsense the state system comes up with, a straightforward 'we take the highest scorers on the test' policy is clearly the most democratic and fairest of all. The idea that a relatively medicore pupil in say Hampton should rank above a better pupil in say Shepperton, is just ridiculous.

[tiffinboys]

Why should my children suffer because they don't live in Kingston?

The idea that setting arbitrary distinctions based on postcode/distance is somehow fairer than simply selecting the highest scoring pupils is nonsense.

You could have same question for Bucks or Reading.. Why only Kingston has to look after you, if your LA can't?

If postcode/distance is nonsense, then how come it is considered very appropriate for most of the grammars? And why can't Kingston children have same benefits of having a local grammar as children in Bucks, Kent, Reading, Chelmsford, Redbridge etc etc have?

Until all grammars are open selective, then it is absurd to expect that Tiffins and few others should remain open selectives to cater for rest of the world.

[tabasco]

Unfortunately the goverment only allow outstanding rated schools to apply to become academies. Otherwise most schools should be able to opt for being partially selective to start with and as a result standard will gradually improved. Currently outstanding rate schools should all become openly selective to cater for the most able DCs of all localities as long as that is feasible for DCs to travel or the family is prepared to relocate. No one should have the right to say my child should be in a particular selective school because they live within walking distance. Selection should base on ability and not on distance. They should go to a non-selective school if they do not scored high enough in the 11+/entrance exam.

[tiffinboys]

Yes, if Kingston children have the same chances. It can't be that children from other areas (e.g. Langley Grammar) can come to Kingston but children from Kingston can't go to that Grammar.

[twelveminus]

Why should my children suffer because they don't live in Kingston?

The idea that setting arbitrary distinctions based on postcode/distance is somehow fairer than simply selecting the highest scoring pupils is nonsense.

You could have same question for Bucks or Reading.. Why only Kingston has to look after you, if your LA can't?

If postcode/distance is nonsense, then how come it is considered very appropriate for most of the grammars? And why can't Kingston children have same benefits of having a local grammar as children in Bucks, Kent, Reading, Chelmsford, Redbridge etc etc have?

Because the great majority of the country lack those benefits, so there isn't really a legitimate grievance here.

And of course Kingston children do have a local grammar, and if they are good they will get in.

Until all grammars are open selective, then it is absurd to expect that Tiffins and few others should remain open selectives to cater for rest of the world.

It's hardly the rest of the world. You might as well say that it's unfair that there are 7 applicants per place for say Reading Grammars, when you can get into a Kent grammar that has only 3 applicants per place.

The fact is local children in Kingston are NOT being discriminated against, they have the same chance, and in reality transportation issues mean that the natural catchment of people applying and accepting places at Tiffin is probably more centralised than say the Reading schools. Have a look at the postcodes on this list: http://www.reading-school.co.uk/26/information" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I see there:

Newbury Rg20 4
Didcot OX11 9
Sunningdale SL5
Bagshot GU19 5

It's 50 miles from Didcot to Sunningdale.

Grammar schools select on ability. Bagshot is in Surrey. Didcot is in Oxfordshire. Reading School is in Berkshire.

There must be coming up to a million in their catchment. 600,000 I would say as a minimum. Hundreds of square miles of land.

RB of Kingston is 14 square miles and 160,000 people.

What arbitrary fence do you want to erect around Kingston? Would it include, say Guildford, closer to Kingston than some of Reading School's is to them.

Or is Reading not a good comparator?

Do you really want to compare it to Broadstairs, or somewhere like that, in the middle of nowhere. Do you really mean 'It's not like Kent'? Because most places aren't....