Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

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tiffinboys
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by tiffinboys »

Thanks, WP

Using centre of the borough is no more different than having post-code based catchments. One alternative could be to base Tiffins catchment on Kingston post-codes and post codes of the immediate surrounding areas. This would tackle the peculiar geographical shape of the Kingston borough - which incidently was also be an argument for having a catchment from the borough's centre.
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London_Mum
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by London_Mum »

Are these official proposals or just ideas at present?

My favoured option would be that all applicants take the test as they do at present.
A minimum pass mark is set at a reasonably high level - say somewhere between 215 and 225.
Anyone scoring above the passmark is eligible for a place.
80% of places are allocated only to those who have reached the passmark with those living closest getting priority.
20% of places are reserved for the very top scores to ensure anyone on 267 living in Kent for example doesn't miss out on an offer.

The advantage would be that all very bright children would automatically get in - the top 20%.
The catchment area would still be huge - not many children reach the pass mark so the geographical spread would still be wide.
Standards would remain high - a child in New Malden on 227 is no less clever than a child in Edmonton on 228 but under the current system loses out.
WP
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by WP »

tiffinboys wrote:Using centre of the borough is no more different than having post-code based catchments. One alternative could be to base Tiffins catchment on Kingston post-codes and post codes of the immediate surrounding areas. This would tackle the peculiar geographical shape of the Kingston borough - which incidently was also be an argument for having a catchment from the borough's centre.
It's not how you define the catchment, but its shape and location and how it is connected to the school. After all one could have a list of postcodes that happened to coincide exactly with the borough, but that would be just as vulnerable to a Greenwich objection as using the borough boundary. You'd need to think of a reason for using a circle centred on Tolworth Tower other than that it's in the centre of the borough, because any criterion solely based on the borough will be in trouble. On the other hand a circle centred on the school, or halfway between the Tiffin schools if they coordinated their policies (or even an area that very roughly approximated such a circle), would have no problems.
SunlampVexesEel
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by SunlampVexesEel »

London_Mum wrote:Are these official proposals or just ideas at present?
AFAIK Ideas that have been circulating for years.

Hopefully a new school for North Kingston will come about at some point but it will definitely be too late for our kids; we're going to be trying under the current system and don't expect anything to change!

The only doubt we have is the test for next year... should we test early or late.... and I wonder if the arrangements around that will change.... I wouldn't be surprised if they don't revert to one late test.

Regards
SVE
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tiffinboys
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by tiffinboys »

London_Mum wrote:Are these official proposals or just ideas at present?

My favoured option would be that all applicants take the test as they do at present.
A minimum pass mark is set at a reasonably high level - say somewhere between 215 and 225.
Anyone scoring above the passmark is eligible for a place.
80% of places are allocated only to those who have reached the passmark with those living closest getting priority.
20% of places are reserved for the very top scores to ensure anyone on 267 living in Kent for example doesn't miss out on an offer.

The advantage would be that all very bright children would automatically get in - the top 20%.
The catchment area would still be huge - not many children reach the pass mark so the geographical spread would still be wide.
Standards would remain high - a child in New Malden on 227 is no less clever than a child in Edmonton on 228 but under the current system loses out.
I agree with this and this is what I had originally proposed. I presented other alternatives for discussions and in case proximity criteria is overwhelmingly not acceptable.

It seems due to peculiar geography of Kingston, defining catchment would be an issue, though I do think that challenge would fail in view of catchment of many other schools (e.g. Wallington Girls' second catchment is not from school; Latimer. Langley, Readings have post-code based catchment) and Kingston could have similar catchments.
Last edited by tiffinboys on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tiffinboys
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by tiffinboys »

Some statistics about Bucks and Kent grammars.
Sally-Anne wrote: Indeed. Statistics for Bucks in a typical year:

Children taking the 11+: 7100

Places available: 2126

Applicants for each place: 3.3

Bearing in mind that the Bucks test is "opt out", and some children will take the test purely because it is there, and not because they are expected to qualify.
Sally-Anne wrote:Just spent an idle moment looking at the Kent stats as well.

The Telegraph article quotes a figure of 11,451 pupils taking the test.

There are 4,739 GS places in Kent, giving an average of 2.4 applicants per place.

Given that Bucks and Kent between them have 30% of grammar school places, I think we can safely say that 13 applicants per place is truly in the realms of fiction other than for one or two sought-after schools with no catchment area.
Number of applicants per place: 2.4 to 3.3 in Bucks and Kent.
Total grammars: 14+34=48
Open selectives: 3 (in Kent, out of 34 grammars)

Contrast this with situation in Kingston
2 grammars (Tiffins) - both open selective

2012 figures
Boys: 1685 for 140 places
Girls: 1471 for 120 places

This year, nearly 1700 sat at each Tiffins at the first sitting - more have sat at the second sitting.
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Apu1923
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by Apu1923 »

There are 150 places in Tiffin girls starting 2013 entry, isn't that right?
tiffinboys
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by tiffinboys »

Correct, from 2013 entry. And from what we are hearing, the number of applicants are also up - believe to be in the region of 1800 to 1900.
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London_Mum
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by London_Mum »

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't revert to one late test.
That would solve the problem but is against the Admission Code which requires testing and results to be complete before the CAF deadline of October 31st.
It was this change to the Code, or more accurately - schools trying to dodge this change, that caused so much disruption this year.


It is hopeful that when North Kingston finally does get another school, that it will reflect the Sutton situation. So few children get into the grammars (especially the boys - girls in Sutton have more of an advantage) that their comprehensive schools are largely very good and cater for high ability children very well. So much so in fact that some Sutton parents don't bother with the 11+ tests at all even when they have a child who would be expected to pass. All the time that Tiffins remains so horrendously competitive, it will at least be good for any new local school since they will still be able to attract and retain very able children in their intakes. Sutton parents see the open selection policy of SGS, Wallington and Wilsons as both a blessing and a curse for this very reason - their sons have no priority to attend their local grammar but at least it means other alternative local schools remain good.
twelveminus
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Re: Tiffin Schools - Admission Arrangements 2014

Post by twelveminus »

tiffinboys wrote:Correct, from 2013 entry. And from what we are hearing, the number of applicants are also up - believe to be in the region of 1800 to 1900.
Seems like good news for those that do get in. So many super-bright kids around you, fantastic.
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