Tiffins Late Tests

[tiffinboys]

There is a strong likelihood that Most of those who decided later, would have taken other schools tests and may also be aware of their results and then decided to have another go as opportunity presented.

This was my son's first test. We started prepping on 21st October.

Not really sure whether he was up to standard or not. Anyone know what sort of marks you should be getting on school CAT assessments to be passing at Tiffin?

Knew that was coming therefore had qualified my observation with 'strong likelihood' and 'most'. For some, not keen on grammars, this may have been an opportunity of free mock before indies tests.

[SunlampVexesEel]

This was my son's first test. We started prepping on 21st October.
Not really sure whether he was up to standard or not. Anyone know what sort of marks you should be getting on school CAT assessments to be passing at Tiffin?

he has high VR/NVR/maths scores (115/135/141)

Presume those scores are CAT Scores. 115+135=250/2=125.

IMHO CAT scores directly correlate with the Tiffin tests. Great NVR score... if he had a good day on the VR then...

Good Luck.

Regards
SVE

[tiffinboys]

Those are fantastic CAT scores. You have a very bright DS at a very good prep. Sure that he would pass Tiffin test easily, though I don't know how strong correlation is between CAT and Tiffin scores.

[twelveminus]

This was my son's first test. We started prepping on 21st October.
Not really sure whether he was up to standard or not. Anyone know what sort of marks you should be getting on school CAT assessments to be passing at Tiffin?

he has high VR/NVR/maths scores (115/135/141)

Presume those scores are CAT Scores. 115+135=250/2=225.

IMHO CAT scores directly correlate with the Tiffin tests. Great NVR score... if he had a good day on the VR then...

Good Luck.

Regards
SVE

Those were last year's scores. Just received this year's from school, and he got 132 VR and 140 NVR on NFER; he sat these I think 2 weeks ago. I guess last year was the first time he had come across these tests, and between the two he had probably done about a dozen of each (school sent some practice papers home), hence the improvement.

He said the NFER tests are quite easy, and Tiffin's was a bit harder.

I ordered the IPS Verbal Reasoning Technique book, albeit only receiving it the Monday before the exam, and found that sitting with him and working through that was much more effective, in showing technique. He tended to make a couple of errors per paper on working out, so I tried to get him to do his working, rather than do it all in his head. The other thing he did was re-code codes, by not reading the question, so I tried to impress on him that if you get something like 'JASXQ' then that's a pretty good sign that they want you to find the original word, not encode it again. So I felt tutoring was quite effective on that.

In the end his main weakness on the VR was his lack of vocabulary, e.g., he might not know what a word like 'tranquil' means. He said he did guess on one question; not sure how many you can get wrong though.

I bought the Bond 'how to do NVR' book, but I didn't find it as useful, tbh I found some of the patterns/links a bit ridiculous. One thing I did say was to try and look at ALL the answers, as sometimes C and E (say) were very similar, C was superficially correct but E was subtly different and the right answer, but he'd already picked C and gone onto the next answer.

In the end at home he was doing better on VR than NVR, but perhaps my NVR papers (Bond Stretch) were harder than my VR.

I saw the age adjustments somewhere, but I have lost them now, but I know there are bands at Tiffin for age. He would have been 10 years six months this Friday, but not last Friday (hence he was 10 years five months on the test date). I spoke to another parent whose son is already 11 and he said that his son got in but then the score was adjusted because of his age so he didn't, but that might just be rubbish (obviously not that they adjust by age, but that he would have got in).

He got a D in his English at school, so as I understand it Tiffin is the only one that doesn't do some kind of English test, so basically the only grammar we had a chance to get in for, so quite lucky to have been able to apply late.

I believe Tiffin won't give us a score till March, as part of the general CAF process, but I could be wrong on that.

Obviously CAT is correlated to the Tiffin scores, but I have no idea how well correlated, IYSWIM, as I understand it 115 is the top 1/6 of the population on a CAT test, whereas 115 on the Tiffin test is the top 1/6 of those taking the test.

Do people enter children for the test with sub-100 IQs? I have no idea. Also the effect of tutoring seems to be quite large, so again hard to say.

Another factor is the number of errors you can make, e.g., the average grade in my son's maths at school was about 85%, whereas the English is only about 50%. Clearly if you are in a test where one mark makes the difference between 115 and 130 then its much more of a lottery.

Anyway, he is sitting for two highly selective independent schools in January (RGS, Guildford, Hampton) for 13+ entry. The school recommended two less selective indies, but I was very uninspired by them. Both schools will assess his English, so it's quite possible that he will fail to get into either. It seems (and I'm not convinced, because he wasn't doing that great on the NVR tests, albeit that they were 'Stretch' ones, at the end) that he is likely to get into Tiffin, so in that case he will I guess go to Tiffin.

We would prefer 13+ as he is happy where he is, but on the other hand if he fails both the indies then we will really have to scratch around to find an Oxbridge-feeding indie, KCS is closed, and otherwise we have to look very far afield to e.g. Tonbridge (I suspect this is quite macho, haven't visited) or Merchant Taylors, and again no guarantee of getting in and would be crazy to spurn a top grammar only to end up sending him to St Thickchilds on £20k/year.

Of course if he does get into Tiffin AND RGS and/or Hampton, we'll still have to consider the £14k/£16k/year compared with £0, but at least in that case we would be buying a measurably better education.

Sorry to ramble....

[tiffinboys]

There is an additional late test this Friday at Tiffins for those that read and relied on the initial published date of the late test which was to be held on 7th December.

Seems like a terrible fiasco.

From what I am now hearing, the number of children taking tests seems to be much higher than the numbers earlier estimated (120 boys and 250 girls), especially for Tiffin Girls' late test.

Expecting around 550 girls to be sitting for 2nd stage tests.


Also from another thread.

Sutton Admissions advice is that there is no statutory requirement for a late test and it was a matter for each school within their admission arrangements. Their interpretation is different from Tiffins and say, whilst an applicant cannot solely be rejected on the basis they have not sat a test, they can be rejected due to the fact the school is already oversubscribed by those that did complete their supplementary form and sit the test. Supplementary form closing dates do not have to be the same as the CAF closing date and a school may require both parts to be completed to be considered as a full application. The only statutory requirement for late testing is then if the school becomes undersubscribed and there remain untested preferences for the school.
If late testing was statutory this would significantly advantage those who choose that option, and create a far more unfair system regardless of how scores may be adjusted.
The matter may well be clarified through legal challenges parents make through this years process or through the Adjudicator for 14/15 entry.

Welcome to the forum, SuttonParent71, and thank you for sharing this response from Sutton LA.

[SunlampVexesEel]

Sutton Admissions advice is that there is no statutory requirement for a late test and it was a matter for each school within their admission arrangements.

That's really interesting.

Indeed the Schools Admissions Code seems to only suggest "take all reasonable steps to inform parents of the outcome of selection tests before the closing date for secondary applications on 31 October so as to allow parents time to make an informed choice of school - while making clear that this does not equate to a guarantee of a selective place."...

Sounds like earlier test with no late test is a more likely outcome than reverting to the late test.

Hopefully the powers that be will do some research and determine why there were so many late testers and ensure that in future those groups affected are aware that they may(?) need to apply earlier next year. It would be a shame if able children missed out on the opportunity of a place simply because their parents were not aware of the criteria until the 31st October deadline.

Regards
SVE

[ThreeKids]

It would be a shame if able children missed out on the opportunity of a place simply because their parents were not aware of the criteria until the 31st October deadline.

My observation, and it is only an observation, is that all the kids that I know of who are taking the late tests are doing so because they can and none are doing it with any real intent to take up a place if offered. The late tests are being viewed as an opportunity to have some late additional practice. Those who are truly keen to take up a place are generally well aware of the deadlines etc. There may be the odd one or two who did validly miss the cut-off but I can honestly say over the years I have never come across sombody who missed out for that reason. If it is such a problem it does beg the question why the selectives that are not running late tests are not jumping on this bandwagon, and why this has never been done before, yet all the schools with 2 stage testing are doing it this year.

[tiffinboys]

+1

However, Tiffin School (for boys) does not have 2nd stage testing, but they act together with Tiffin Girls. TGS and SGS made changes this year without proper consultation as required and are making the matter even worse by their own interpretation of the Admissions Code.

Over 1700 registered for TS first test, similar to last year. Over 1600 registered for TGS (last year just under 1500). So how could one say that parents would have genuinely missed the registration date?

I think most of those who are attempting at the second sitting were not interested in Tiffins and are merely making the most of the opportunity presented by Tiffins. The numbers coming out for the 2nd sitting of the Girls test is quite high and definitely not the few who may have missed the deadline.

[Myname]

One girl has a number 1832 , not sure about last one...for the first stage TGS...should be much more then 1600 registered..

[tiffinboys]

One girl has a number 1832 , not sure about last one...for the first stage TGS...should be much more then 1600 registered..

Is that the number from the first sitting on 27 Sep or the late test on 30 Nov?