Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

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TiffinGirls
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by TiffinGirls »

As the parent of a current A level student (TGS) I believe that three is quite adequate.

Four AS levels are offered at the school plus General Studies which is compulsory (the exam isn't). Critical reasoning AS is optional (encouraged for potential Oxbridge etc). I believe they are also doing the new project/essay thing (no information about it so far though!).

Girls drop one subject after AS and take 3 to A2. Some girls end up with more AS/A2 if they are fast tracked earlier in the school (i.e. French or Maths). I think they can also opt to take the exams in General Studies and Critical Reasoning but my DD intends to take neither.

There is no great advantage for most in doing 4 A2 in my opinion. Universities accept 3 - even Oxbridge, medical schools etc. TGS has a relatively high number of successful applicants and most go to well reputed universities. They are heavy courses and to get A* (which some ask for) you are looking at marks of over 90%. While my DD will agonise over which one to drop, she recognises she has a better chance of getting the A grades she needs in the other three.

With respect to the success of private schools in University applications, I think there are other factors such as expectations, school and family experience and arguably spoon feeding and coaching (which state schools are not resourced for). I really don't think it is down to 4 A levels.

My younger child's comp do 4 subjects to A2 and very few students get A* at A level at all. Some go on to good universities; however they probably would also do so if they did three.
2outof3
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by 2outof3 »

Interestingly I have tonight been to the Oxbridge evening for students at Sutton schools. The speaker from Cambridge stressed that although many students who get offers from Oxbridge do actually carry on with four A levels, offers will only be made on 3 and those who only do 3 to A2 will not be penalised in anyway. He stressed that 4 As will not be looked on as favourably as an A* and 2 As (the average Cambridge offer.)

At Nonsuch nearly every girl will take 4 AS levels with an additional compulsory critical thinking AS level (which they must take the exam for.) In year 13 most girls will drop one AS level but they do have the choice of carrying on with all of them. They must also, however, take either critical thinking to A2 or if they drop critical thinking they must take the Extended Project Qualification (which is very well regarded by universities, particularly if the project is based on the subject that the student chooses to apply for at university.)

Just another perspective for those interested :D

One other very interesting thing I noticed was that there were lists of the pupils at each of the sutton schools for students to sign in. As you would expect, there were in excess of 50 Nonsuch girls present at the talk. There were, however, very few pupils from the Sutton comprehensives e.g. three or four from each. Of course there may be other students from these schools who just couldn't come to the talk tonight, but I was surprised to see so few from what are generally accepted to be very good sixth forms.
tiffinboys
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by tiffinboys »

TiffinGirls wrote:As the parent of a current A level student (TGS) I believe that three is quite adequate.

Four AS levels are offered at the school plus General Studies which is compulsory (the exam isn't). Critical reasoning AS is optional (encouraged for potential Oxbridge etc). I believe they are also doing the new project/essay thing (no information about it so far though!).

Girls drop one subject after AS and take 3 to A2. Some girls end up with more AS/A2 if they are fast tracked earlier in the school (i.e. French or Maths). I think they can also opt to take the exams in General Studies and Critical Reasoning....
2outof3 wrote: At Nonsuch nearly every girl will take 4 AS levels with an additional compulsory critical thinking AS level (which they must take the exam for.) In year 13 most girls will drop one AS level but they do have the choice of carrying on with all of them. They must also, however, take either critical thinking to A2 or if they drop critical thinking they must take the Extended Project Qualification (which is very well regarded by universities, particularly if the project is based on the subject that the student chooses to apply for at university.)
Thank you, TG and 2outof3 (or rather, 3outof3 :D ).

Do the Tiffin pupils have the 'choice of carrying on with all' of the 4 AS subjects, if they want to? I do understand this is not uni's requirements, but looking at the breadth offered by IB diploma, atleast 4 A level subject would be beneficial and also cater to varying interest of the pupil if so desired. Just 3 A level subjects, in my view, narrow the learning. I don't know what will happen when it is the time for DC to choose the subjects, but looking back, I would definitely have wanted to do mfl or a different subject in addition to the three chosen with degree course requirements in mind.
TiffinGirls
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by TiffinGirls »

In my opinion things will have changed in the few years before your DS needs to make his decision. I am sure schools will find a way of broadening the curriculum.

In my day we did some really interesting things in General Studies like ancient Greek, psychology etc which were not offered as subjects at my (grammar) school.

While I do share your concern about dropping MFL etc, if you want to do a subject that requires a lot of work experience before application like DD (for example medicine) there are literally not enough hours in the day/weekends/holidays etc, especially if you have interests like music or sport or clubs outside of school.
TiffinGirls
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by TiffinGirls »

In my day it was thought that UK degrees were three years rather than the four that as was common overseas because A' levels were thought to be more rigourous and there was less of a jump to University study in contrast to the breadth of study and lack of early specialisation in other countries. I don't know if that is still the case and I don't think one was necessarily better, just different. I also went to Uni when it was free and we even got grants - a different world nowadays.... :cry:
tiffinboys
Posts: 8022
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Is it good to move from grammars to indies for A levels?

Post by tiffinboys »

Thanks every one for the very useful views.
twelveminus wrote: My main observation on this point would be that Oxbridge success rates for top private schools are very much higher than top state schools, so it seems that you would be better off in the former, from an Oxbridge perspective.
Now have to sprint back to the indies. Hope they give us some time to re-think this whole issue. :wink:
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