wilson's or SGS : what to choose?!

[pooziepuzzle]

As Ladymuck said closer to home is better if you have a choice of 2 fantastic schools. Good luck!

[newto11+]

Thank you Ladymuck, with your post you definitely taught me how to think while choosing schools

After reading your post,I've looked at both wilson's and sutton grammar's a/cs and perfectly understood how SGS got 99% in league tables So am not really bothered abt their position in the league tables.

However, what really troubled me is the state of their a/cs. While wilson's is in comfortable position financially ,I can see , SGS is bit struggling. Do you think it will have any adverse effect on the quality of teaching/facilities that the student's gget in the coming years? The report mentioned something like SGS has to rely on the money it gets from parents - Is it the case with all the other grammars? - I heard wilson's expects some voluntary monthly contribution while in SGS its like almost mandatory. Ofcourse, it's not a big amt , but ,it clearly shows how stable the school is with funding!

Or am I thinking too much unnecessarily?

[newto11+]

As Ladymuck said closer to home is better if you have a choice of 2 fantastic schools. Good luck!

I totally agree with this pooziepuzzle. To wilson's everyday 1 hr 40 mins to/fro on bus. to SGS it's only 30mins both ways everyday - More than an hour saving per day. That's why this big dilemma

[PurpleDuck]

newto11+, we've decided on the 1st preference based on distance to school.

Consider both the length of the journey on the bus or/and train and what time your DS would have to leave in the morning to get to school on time. Registration is usually at 8.25am, so your DS would probably want to aim to arrive at school by 8.10-8.15 at the very latest. What time would he have to leave the house? How frequent are the trains/busses that he could travel on? If there is a bus every 5 minutes, a cancellation does not matter that much; if they run every half an hour and are not very reliable, perhaps he would need to leave half an hour early to avoid potential detention for lateness. With the amount of homework they get in secondary school, it's unlikely he would be able to be in bed by 9pm every night to make up for a very early start in the morning.

[Sillyparent]

My son is year 9 atSGS and the school fund ,it's again a voluntary one but in year 7 they make sure you contribute the whole. / some of the amount.I know one of my friend who's son in year 7 at Wilson pays £55 a month towards the fun!
Anyway the quality of teaching and resources are no different to any other schools; Infact I would say it's so much better as my son has got a smaller group to share and enjoy(I know it's a bit selfish)
When you talk about the quality of teaching ,most of teachers have a long time relationship with the school or they are ex pupils of the school.so the quality stays the same.The teachers work with the children very closely and identify the strength and weakness even before the pupil realises his own potential.My son is in Gifted and talented register for English ,Maths and science ( which I could understand)but when I received the letter saying " he is doing exceptionally well in music.." I couldn't believe my eyes.After sometime I can see that he is great and yes he is a great musician .
All the credit goes to the school.

[Moon unit]

Wilson's suggest a contribution but it's entirely voluntary. There is no pressure and the teaching staff don't know who contributes. They specifically say if it would be hard for your family to give anything please don't.
The Wilson's foundation is quite wealthy I think but to be honest I have no idea how that works with funding day to day things.

[Ladymuck]

Contributions to the school fund are expected but not mandatory at many schools. My local comp asks for £10 per month per child despite over 35% children on FSM, and gets around 70% of parents contributing. They make a point of showing exactly what the money has been used for.

I could write an essay on school funding, a subject close to my heart. However I'll try to be brief. The government has announced that schools will be subject to flat funding, ie the pot is capped at the same amount for the next 5 years. Costs, especially staff costs, continue to rise. So the NI increase of 3% odd in September this year has to be met without a corresponding increase in funding. Around 80% of school costs are staff costs. And essentially that is the cost that has to be managed going forward.

So most schools are faced with 4 options:-
1) cut the number of staff. This may mean reducing the number of subjects on offer, or restricting GCSE and A level choices to ensure that classes are as full as possible.
2) reduce the cost of staff. So hire NQTs and lose some of the longer term hires who have progressed to the highest pay scale.
3) Look for synergies by expanding, merging, entering into federations or multi-academy costs. A school of 120 needs a similar size senior leadership team as one of 240. There are a lot of management and administrative activities that each school has to do, so schools could look at ways of sharing that burden.
4) Look for ways to raise additional income. Looking at Wilson's 2014 accounts, they managed to raise £723k, up from £423k the previous year (was that the year the new sponsored music scheme was introduced?) So on the face of it the family of the average Wilson's boys would be contributing around £380 a year, but equally Wilson's are very proactive about trying to attract business donations as well. Sutton seemed to have a dedicate staff member for generating funds, so clearly they're on the same track. The schools may looks to increase numbers, especially in the 6th form.

Most schools have already pursued options 1 and 2 over the last 5 years, and clearly both of these schools are pursuing 4 as well. The unknown I feel lies around the third option. Both WCGS and Sutton are considered to be "small" secondary schools by current standards, and the current direction is for larger schools to be the norm. Both schools have expanded in recent years and have in turn received capital funding to do so. WCGS is looking to expand via a new school in Croydon, and the front page of the Croydon Advertiser this week has a headline indicating that they will try for a new grammar annexe in the south of that borough. Certainly the 2 girls grammars in Sutton, with a combined PAN of 420 a year now lie under one executive head. It makes the model of 3 heads/bursars/heads of curriculums/exam officers etc for the boys school look expensive, and not sustainable for the future.

Should this have any bearing on your decision as to which school? To be honest, only if you have a crystal ball, and all other aspects, especially travel time, are equal. I think that it is worth noting that the schools are all under an enormous pressure to balance their budgets. As schools get paid by the pupil, the schools will get more crowded. I was surprised that SGS went to 5 forms of 27 as they simply get around £70,000 per yeargroup for filling the empty seats. Parents who could easily afford private school but opted for the free state option may change their minds, especially as the private schools are also raising standards again by having more children chasing for a static number of seats. (For the first time ever last year I came across boys who had seats at Wilsons but didn't get offers from Trinity).

[Wingman100]

Hi,

My son has just started Sutton Grammar and so far so good. He seems to have settled in quickly and there are lots of extra curricular activities offered. The school comes across as one that cares for the boys and I have been very impressed by the teachers that I have met so far. For what it's worth my observations are:

- Wilson's is a bigger school in terms of student numbers and also occupies a much bigger plot.
- SGS is in a densely populated town centre location and hence has limited space to expand so is increasingly 'squashed in' and does feel a bit enclosed. Saying that, it has managed to build a new sports hall, sixth form block and IT block in recent years !
- SGS do ask for a £50 monthly contribution.....not sure about Wilsons.
- Wilsons sports ground is on-site, Suttons is a short distance away (2 miles) in Northey Avenue Cheam so games lessons are a school bus ride away.

I have no doubt that both schools provide excellent teachers and an excellent environment to learn. As already discussed, I think length of commute is definitely worth careful consideration.

Good luck.

[newto11+]

Thank you all for helping me in deciding our first preference. We've submitted the CAF - we've choosen the preferences by keeping 'distance' in mind.

Hope to see atleast few of you if my DS gets his first preference

Thanks again for taking time to respond with your valuable suggestions.

Special thanks to Ladymuck