Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
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tiffinboys
- Posts: 8022
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Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
My hunch is that marking is pretty strict as the markers are probably used to GCSE style marking and their expectation is very high. Secondly, the scaling method used would give lopsided scaled marks if some one achieve very high raw score and the rest are concentrated around mid raw scores. If TGS is using the same scaling as they did for 2012 and 2013 tests (the method is detailed in previous threads), the few who may have scored highly would get around 30 marks and those who get the lowest raw marks (despite that may be 40% or more of the raw score) would get just 1 mark. That would tip the balance.
Again as mentioned by piggys, written work would be looked at from many aspects and where some children have highly mature writing style, the average writer would suffer disproportionately under the TGS scaling method. But to be fair, it is the same method for all the candidates.
Few days ago, one of the parents at the school gate was strongly arguing that TGS is probably doing some sort of social engineering through its marking schemes. If some one is to believe that, then the markers must be experts in finding out the family background from handwriting. All I can say is that there is no such evidence and we should not pay heed to such rumours.
Again as mentioned by piggys, written work would be looked at from many aspects and where some children have highly mature writing style, the average writer would suffer disproportionately under the TGS scaling method. But to be fair, it is the same method for all the candidates.
Few days ago, one of the parents at the school gate was strongly arguing that TGS is probably doing some sort of social engineering through its marking schemes. If some one is to believe that, then the markers must be experts in finding out the family background from handwriting. All I can say is that there is no such evidence and we should not pay heed to such rumours.
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
Curiousman first of all I am not interested in this 'argument' you keep referring to. I am attempting to inform you about how English exams are marked because you clearly don't understand. Secondly, I am in a position of far greater experience to know what I am talking about. That isn't condescending, it is factually correct. When you have the same level of expertise and knowledge of how to teach and mark English language and Literature writing then, yes, you can perhaps add something to the discussion and challenge the markers at Tiffins over their "prejudices and preferences".
Your generalisations are rather unpleasant - "typically attitude (sic) of people employed by the government." I think you are showing your true colours.
Your generalisations are rather unpleasant - "typically attitude (sic) of people employed by the government." I think you are showing your true colours.
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
"Social engineering through its marking schemes" 
eh? how funny! I heard they employ graphologists to produce a psycho-analysis of each candidate based on their handwriting........ 
Seriously though tiffinboys, some parents concoct the most ludicrous of allegations. As we already know
eh? how funny! I heard they employ graphologists to produce a psycho-analysis of each candidate based on their handwriting........ Seriously though tiffinboys, some parents concoct the most ludicrous of allegations. As we already know
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
piggys,
As tiffinboys has indicated, due to the scaling method, towards the lower end of the raw marks range a slight inconsistency could have a big impact on the scaled mark and I think what might add insight to do the discussion would be information on the typical variance of marks awarded by different markers on the same English paper (I am assuming that a first marker would not annotate a paper and thus influence a second marker).
nyr
As tiffinboys has indicated, due to the scaling method, towards the lower end of the raw marks range a slight inconsistency could have a big impact on the scaled mark and I think what might add insight to do the discussion would be information on the typical variance of marks awarded by different markers on the same English paper (I am assuming that a first marker would not annotate a paper and thus influence a second marker).
nyr
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
That is what cross-moderation is for nyr, so that any slight inconsistencies are levelled. All grammar schools will have this procedure in place (they would be mad not to).
WRT annotations, it would depend to an extent on whether or not the school has a blanket policy of not returning papers to candidates/parents. Obviously in public examining, scripts require careful annotation in relation to the AOs. If entrance exam papers are not going to see the light of day again then there will not be a requirement for such detailed commentary.
WRT annotations, it would depend to an extent on whether or not the school has a blanket policy of not returning papers to candidates/parents. Obviously in public examining, scripts require careful annotation in relation to the AOs. If entrance exam papers are not going to see the light of day again then there will not be a requirement for such detailed commentary.
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
Thanks, piggys, I understand the point about annotation in relation to the AOs of a module but the idea of second marking of already annotated papers makes me feel quite uncomfortable. I assume that cross-moderation is a step after second marking and particularly useful when scripts are divided up between different markers.
OP, I don't know if this is at all possible, but what might be useful is getting some statistical data on the variations that arise during these steps. Could FOI be a route for this?
nyr
OP, I don't know if this is at all possible, but what might be useful is getting some statistical data on the variations that arise during these steps. Could FOI be a route for this?
nyr
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curiousman
- Posts: 31
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Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
piggys,
I am sure you have all the experience, that does not make you right. I know this is difficult logic to grasp, but an important one. Look I have no quarrel with anyone who holds the view that the system is infallible, which is what you are suggesting.
None of this would however, logically (not your strong point, I can see that) justify, why a child would consistently do well in other tests, some of which have better reputation than TGS. You can say that the performance of the child was not good on that particular day. However, knowing my child (you don't, right?) it is unlikely she would say she has done well, when she had not.
True colours? What does that even mean.
Cheers and have a great holidays.
I am sure you have all the experience, that does not make you right. I know this is difficult logic to grasp, but an important one. Look I have no quarrel with anyone who holds the view that the system is infallible, which is what you are suggesting.
None of this would however, logically (not your strong point, I can see that) justify, why a child would consistently do well in other tests, some of which have better reputation than TGS. You can say that the performance of the child was not good on that particular day. However, knowing my child (you don't, right?) it is unlikely she would say she has done well, when she had not.
True colours? What does that even mean.
Cheers and have a great holidays.
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
Sometimes children - or adults in fact - can feel that a test has gone very well and be completely wrong.
They have perhaps missed out whole pages, or misread the instructions and flown through the task with ease doing precisely the opposite of what was asked of them. In other instances, they get their box ticking out of alignment on a multiple choice paper and answer every question correctly but in the wrong box.
Of course nobody here knows your child as well as you do but it isn't a mutually exclusive state of affairs for a child - even one who excels at tests and has experienced many of them - to genuinely feel that a particular exam has gone very well and yet to have made fundamental errors.
In answer to your original question, exam scripts are specifically exempt from the Data Protection Act, so you have no legal right to see the papers (they come under Data Protection not FOI)
I have hopefully inserted a link here
It is possible that the school would agree to a remark especially if you appealed for a place because that triggers them to submit a defense to your appeal.
However since you have a place at a school you are happy with, hopefully this is all just curiosity or musing and not something that will have any real impact on you or your daughter.
They have perhaps missed out whole pages, or misread the instructions and flown through the task with ease doing precisely the opposite of what was asked of them. In other instances, they get their box ticking out of alignment on a multiple choice paper and answer every question correctly but in the wrong box.
Of course nobody here knows your child as well as you do but it isn't a mutually exclusive state of affairs for a child - even one who excels at tests and has experienced many of them - to genuinely feel that a particular exam has gone very well and yet to have made fundamental errors.
In answer to your original question, exam scripts are specifically exempt from the Data Protection Act, so you have no legal right to see the papers (they come under Data Protection not FOI)
I have hopefully inserted a link here
It is possible that the school would agree to a remark especially if you appealed for a place because that triggers them to submit a defense to your appeal.
However since you have a place at a school you are happy with, hopefully this is all just curiosity or musing and not something that will have any real impact on you or your daughter.
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curiousman
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:54 pm
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
loopylou, I absolutely agree with you that a child can get it wrong and at this stage it does not matter. I have said as much earlier. However, piggys picked the thread up in rather, late and in rather odd and personal way in defence of TGS.
See piggys seems to be saying, "We do not make mistake. no we just cant !!!".
I cant resist saying "not true" to that.
PS: If piggys and her ilk are so damn sure, let them give a copy of marked paper to the parents; instead of we are the Gods nonsense.
See piggys seems to be saying, "We do not make mistake. no we just cant !!!".
I cant resist saying "not true" to that.
PS: If piggys and her ilk are so damn sure, let them give a copy of marked paper to the parents; instead of we are the Gods nonsense.
Re: Tiffin Girls Appeals - Remarking
Curiousman your froth and rage is a bit ludicrous. Clearly you are not taking your daughter's weakness in the exam at all well. I tried to explain how the exams are marked and you failed to understand. Resorting to coarse language and childish retorts does you no favours. I think you ought to leave it now, before I report your posts for being abusive.
