Sutton Grammar Results

[huntlie]

The fault is surely with the schools, not the parents! If schools which have a catchment policy (ie they take, say, top 50 from anywhere, then rest from a local radius) are contacting parents whose sons / daughters have had higher offers and are out of catchment,and inviting them to go on the waiting list at a higher position than local pupils, then they are contravening their own admissions policy, at least as it stands for this year.

[sunnymummy]

Huntlie

The boy's schools don't have a catchment area.
They offer places strictly according to ability - no ifs, no buts.

Absolutelyyoga - good point.
Surreymum - yay!
Giulio - good luck
miemum - good luck


Everyone - Please be nice.

Remember, situations change. You have to be able to change your mind because - life changes.

Just think, if a child is seriously unhappy, say, a year into a secondary school, the door has to be left a little ajar. Yes, I know that gs do close that door at some point but if we did achieve a policy of no wl, the principle of being able to move your ds to another school would be seriously compromised. I'm sure most of our ds will be happy wherever they go but let's think about those children for whom that is not the case.

Then there are people like me. We moved to where we live now just before having to fill in the CAF. I have no idea at all about the relative merits of the schools we've put on the list. It doesn't become real until the acceptance form arrives. No, we're not changing our minds, but ... I can really empathise with those that might.

Interestingly, ds has a place at Wilson's and we were v. unsure that we shouldn't try for the w.l. at Graveney. So you see, it really is a very watery world. Swings and roundabouts etc..

The current system was brought in to clear up and quicken the previous administration system, which was a massive headache. By and large, it's succeeding.

Let's get some context here. Very, very few people are going to change their minds. They're not "stealing" places - the places have already been allocated - anything else that comes up now is a plus. Not allowing any room for a change of mind/change of heart would be quite a scarey thing to inflict on people.

I really, really wish everyone waiting for places the absolute best of luck. I hope you get what you wish for and it turns out to be good.

[huntlie]

However, the girls' schools do have a catchment - at least until next year!

[piers3]

Sunnnymummy

Remember, situations change. You have to be able to change your mind because - life changes.

Firstly I do not wish to offend anyone.

Huntlie is partially correct. the main fault lies with schools gerrymandering the waiting list. Parent also need to understand that the reason for the CAF was to end the situation where some parents had three or four schools offers and others had none.

I have visited all the Sutton GS's and Tiffin Schools over the past three years with my DD and DS in all the speeches by the various HeadTeachers there was always the line "If you really want to come to this school put it as your first preference." I believe some parents just were not listening at this point.

Now the system allows you to change your preference up until the deadline for applications. Situations may change but your application is set. In the case of any parent that applied to Wallington Boys they had their results before submitting the application if fact Wallingston held meeting for the Parents of the boys that passed to explain the results and 'assist them'.

I have no problem with Children with a higher preference offer being added to the Waiting List but after those recieved a lower offer or no offer from another school. I know that may seem unfair but you have already got a place at a school you wanted more.

I understand Giulio's and Sunnymummy's view but your change of mind could cost a child a place at their first choice school. This is not just a theory as you have already seen the depth of feeling by some posters.

I have friend whose Ds passed Wilson and Wallington on waiting list for both with no offer from any schools he is going backwards on the list because of the new additions.This is not something everbody does, a lot time and research goes into making selections.

I have written to adjudicator to investigate this practise. The best solution I feel would be for all the Grammars to move their Tests so parents have the results before submitting their CAF as suggested in The Schools Admissions Code and to stop adding children with a higher preference school before others.

[mitasol]

What did you ask the adjudicator to consider?

It is the admissions code which states that schools must rank the waiting list according to the published oversubscription criteria.

Waiting lists
3.19 Each admission authority must maintain a waiting list for at least one term in the academic year of admission, for every oversubscribed school, and it must include the fact it will do this in their school's published admission arrangements, making clear that children will be ranked in the same order as the published oversubscription criteria. Waiting lists must be clear, fair and objective and must not give priority to children based on the date either their application was received or their name was added to the list. For example, if a child moves to an area outside the normal admissions round and has higher priority against the published oversubscription criteria, they must be ranked above those with lower priority already on the list, subject to the requirements of paragraph 3.21

[piers3]

mitasol wrote

What did you ask the adjudicator to consider?

What the schools are doing is operating the Pan London Admission system until National Allocation Day. The next day they then revert to casual/occasional admissions rules as if the school year has already started. This has not been explained to parents and it takes a great leap of faith to believe that the Waiting Lists are not part of the Normal Admission round.

Schools Admission Code

Waiting lists
3.26 Admission authorities are not required to maintain waiting lists for oversubscribed schools but where they intend to do so, they must include this information in their school's published admission arrangements, making clear that children will be ranked in the same order as the published oversubscription criteria. Waiting lists must be clear, fair and objective and must not give priority to children based on the date either their application was received or their name was added to the list. For example, if a child moves to an area outside the normal admissions round and has higher priority against the published oversubscription criteria, they must be ranked above those with lower priority already on the list. Admission authorities must notify parents of where their child has been placed on a waiting list but must not give any indication of the likelihood of being offered a place as their position may change.

The above quote is for Admissions in year and outside the Normal Admission round. I think the one you quoted was from the previous admission code.

[mitasol]

Piers, I think that the code you quoted is old. They now must have a waiting list and it must be ranked by the oversubscription criteria.
http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/sacode/downloads ... 060309.pdf

Many of the schools were not meeting this requirement and have been forced to make changes to the published admission documents. These late changes to the admissions documents are the reason, I think, that letters have had to be sent out to everyone this year.

As an example
Tiffin Boys amended the Admissions policy on 18/07/08.
http://www.tiffin.kingston.sch.uk/uploa ... y08-09.pdf

I don't think that they can change the published admissions policy (at that late stage) just because they want to, it must be, because they have to.

[huntlie]

Hmmm. But are they not in fact changing it anyway, if they are writing to parents of pupils who have not quite made the top 50 but scored high, and inviting them onto the waiting list? This is in the case of the girls' schools, which do still have catchment of course. Or have I misunderstood what people were saying about this?

[sunnymummy]

worryqueen and other waiters

sorry for coming on here and adding unnecessary thoughts.

this is a support and information thread. I realise my posts weren't helpful. they were supposed to be but ... somehow .... i think not.

so, just good luck to waiting people.

[Giulio]

Sorry surreymum
Have taken al on board.
Thats all from me from now on, no more postings .Im exhausted with the whole stress of it.
Good luck to everyone for September in whatever school their children go to.
Bye

I heard you got Tiffin as hoped, if that is true, congratulations!