I really don't know.

samsa · Post by **samsa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:48 pm

Thea, I am not sure where I stated I was against the 11+

katel · Post by **katel** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:04 pm

I am, actually very strongly opposed to the 11.However, because I live in an 11+ area, I have no choice but to work within the system. Why should I not post on this forum?

samsa · Post by **samsa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:15 pm

No reason at all. Of course you can post, so can I and so can anyone who feels they have something to add. I thought that was the whole point of forums.

SunlampVexesEel · Post by **SunlampVexesEel** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:58 am

Thea wrote:I find it slightly odd that someone who does not approve of the 11+ would bother to come on an 11+ website.

I don't think this was stated at all. My interpretation was that the original post was more concerned at the pressure being applied by parents in inappropriate circumstances.

e.g. Gaining a place by tutoring rather than inate ability and then the subsequent need to coach to keep up; and the implication that a naturally gifted but less prepared child would be denied a place.

I respect that view and the concern displayed by having such a view.

However, I also support the desire of those here that have borderline candidates and are making their efforts to help their prodgeny end up on the high side of the cut-off by practice and familiarilty with the question types.

A broad spectrum dwell here.

Regards
SVE

samsa · Post by **samsa** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:54 am

I won't rabbit on much more. Just wanted to say I am sorry if I have offended anyone but my intention was not to berate parents for doing the best for their kids. I am sure hardly any people in this forum go past the line of care and consideration to something more intense. As a teacher my loyalty does lie with the children, it would be odd if it didn't.

I spent a long time thinking about writing but what I saw last November prompted me to. I saw children being physically sick before and during the exams, a significant number removed from the rooms because they broke down in tears, and one person who was so hysterical that they couldn't take the exam at all. The parents insisted she stay on afterwards and complete it on her own. This is really what I wanted to warn against because at the end of the day they are just 10 or 11 years old. I have seen enough kids of 14 and 15 who just give up because they have been too pushed too soon.

That is really all I wanted to say. I am not against the 11+, my daughter will start grammar school in September. My son, at a comprehensive got 10 A* at GCSE last year. Such is life, she will have a hard job beating him!

resmum · Post by **resmum** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:21 pm

samsa wrote:I saw children being physically sick before and during the exams, a significant number removed from the rooms because they broke down in tears, and one person who was so hysterical that they couldn't take the exam at all. The parents insisted she stay on afterwards and complete it on her own.

That's truly awful and suggests too much pressure is being put on some children by their parents which backfires if they are then stressed and upset on exam day.

My daughter says there are a couple of girls in her class who are struggling to keep up. Whether they were extensively tutored to pass the exam I don't know, but they are not coping with the work which doesn't make for a happy or successful school life. Better to be winning all the accolades at the local comp than lagging behind the pack at grammar school.

Drastic Dad · Post by **Drastic Dad** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:10 pm

I saw children being physically sick before and during the exams, a significant number removed from the rooms because they broke down in tears, and one person who was so hysterical that they couldn't take the exam at all. The parents insisted she stay on afterwards and complete it on her own.

Maybe you saw some children in that state. I saw hundreds of hopeful, well-prepared and ambitious young children that day. Most of them failed, hopefully none of them was scarred for life. I know quite a few who failed. According to their parents, they were sad for a few hours and then went back to their fun and games as if nothing had happened. Parents taking an exam so seriously that they would make their child cry over a failure are despicable but such parents are a very small minority. Why the he11 are we not bothered about correcting the huge majority of parents who don't give any thought about their children's future, let them loose in the streets to harass their own neighbours and helpless pensioners? We are very quick to brand 'hoodie gangs' who are produced by thoughtless parenting, media and negative peer-pressure. What about those majority of parents? Why are we tarnishing a system of excellent education just because of a small number if parents? What about the thousands of highly successful high-flyers produced by the grammar schools system and the millions of 'drop-kicks' churned out by a rich but incompetent comprehensive system? Everybody needs to get their priorities right and focus their anger where it is most likely to make a positive difference because anger is a gift and it should be used very discreetly.

isamum · Post by **isamum** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:23 pm

We sat 2 grammar exams - no child in my dd's room was sick or left room because of stress.
I told het to d othe best and not to worry as during exam is ALWAYS too late for such emotions.

Giulio · Post by **Giulio** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:36 pm

Drastic Dad wrote:[ anger is a gift and it should be used very discreetly.

I liked that one. My wife says I am choleric, but probably she means "gifted".

I am sure most people would agree that caring too much is better then not caring at all. Not sure about high-flyers vs drop-kicks. You are, naturally, a bit drastic.

Annateam · Post by **Annateam** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:51 pm

I have to say I tend to agree with Samsa'a viepwoint, although I generally think the drive/determination comes from a real desire for parents to want their child to succeed as a positive thing rather than potentially sinister.

The thing that concerns me is the long journeys that some kids are going to be making and from my own experience a general poo pooing of local comps (I of course understand that some poo pooing may well have foundation, however my experience is there's a lot of ridiculous poo pooing of very good comps schools in the area I live).

My view point is of someone who went to the local failing comp and then accepted a place at grammar in Year 9, yes that way round, I wasn't booted out of grammar! I was offered a place in Year 9 for 'dream grammar school' and I wished I stayed at the local supposedly failing comp where I am confident I would have achieved far better results. Of course it is all subjective, but at the comp I was motivate, stretched and received a far higher standard of teaching. Of course my exeperience is probably quite unique and the switch at that stage of my education had an effect, but my general points sticks the standards of teaching was better, I was stretched and motivated.

I'm not damning those who fight hard for their kids to received a grammar school education, but rather saying that it's not the be all and end all. Also that the local failing comp with the awful rough reputation isn't always what it seems, and the same can be said for the top grammar schools.

I do understand the desire to want what is best for ones child in terms of academia, the prospect of high school is looming all too soon for my eldest son, who is bright and potential grammar school material and I myself fearing getting caught in the 'must go to grammar' trap. *sigh* it's very hard!

Anyway, I wish everyone the best with the choices they make and just quietly put out there the idea that grammar isn't the be all and end all.