Independents more socially inclusive than top state schools

[solimum]

Sorry to contradict you here, but you are wrong with regard to those at boarding school/university being counted at their term time address and their home address (or even cross referenced with it - no way it can be done unless specific new questions are asked).

The census take the number of people sleeping at any one particular dwelling on that night and that night alone.

If people are 'living' away from their family residence they should only be counted in the place at which they are sleeping for that evening (this includes those who are away for only one night).

Sorry to contradict your contradiction Snowdrops - I think you might have been right in the 1991 Census (where "population present on Census Night" was the vital count) but the 2001 Census form instructions state: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pdfs/H1.pdf



List all members of this household who usually live at this address, including yourself.

Start with the Householder or Joint Householders

Include anyone who is temporarily away from home on the night of 21st April 2001 who usually lives at this address

Include schoolchildren and students if they live at this address during the school, college or university term

Also include schoolchildren and students who are away from home during the school, college or university term and for whom only basic information is required



Now in practice these are only used to provide counts of resident population of different ages, depending on the definition of "usually resident", and the administrative burden of checking that every schoolchild or student is listed in both places means that it wasn't done on a person-by person basis, but the information was recorded. Infact in 2011 I believe ONS are planning to try and ask more about the wide range of people with two or more addresses (children from separated parents, people working away during the week, MPs in taxpayer funded duck houses etc) as counting the far more mobile population nowadays gets increasingly tricky, and different population counts are useful for different purposes

KenR - the Scottish Census has always seemed to ask more useful questions about travel to school/ education as well as travel to work - they must leave out some of the other English questions...

[hermanmunster]

For the Scottsh 2011 census all residents have to state the address of their employer or school, e.g.

What address do you travel to for your main job or course of study (including school)?

Tick one box only and write in address.

This information can be used to create a database of school population by social class etc.

Having had to analyse and use census data in my previous employment I can be fairly sure that anything with written in details / cross matching will only be done for a sample of the population - simply too time consuming to produce the data in any other way - it also has to be adjusted so that individuals / households cannot be identified.

That particular type of question has been in before - mainly looking at "travel to work" zones - used for transport planning.

[magwich2]

A bit off-topic but relevant to the accuracy of Census data:
When we were impecunious students in 1981 and just plain impecunious ten years later(!) we worked as census enumerators.
When we asked what to do about the considerable number of people the press were saying would refuse to be counted, we were told to stand on the doorstep and repeat as many times as necessary "If you were to tell me that you were away on census night I do not need your name or any answers to questions and I can just go away and leave you alone".
We only had one person in the middle of hammersmith who wanted to be a martyr and everyone else on both occasions "remembered" their recent night away! What a waste of time and taxpayers money.

[Snowdrops]

My mistook Solimum

[solimum]

A bit off-topic but relevant to the accuracy of Census data:
When we were impecunious students in 1981 and just plain impecunious ten years later(!) we worked as census enumerators.
When we asked what to do about the considerable number of people the press were saying would refuse to be counted, we were told to stand on the doorstep and repeat as many times as necessary "If you were to tell me that you were away on census night I do not need your name or any answers to questions and I can just go away and leave you alone".
We only had one person in the middle of hammersmith who wanted to be a martyr and everyone else on both occasions "remembered" their recent night away! What a waste of time and taxpayers money.

Then those same noble citizens complain bitterly that their local council doesn't get enough grant for all the services it provides (so their council tax is too high, not that they probably pay it) because the population hasn't been counted accurately....

I did enumeration too in 1991 and 2001 and the change to counting on a "usual resident" basis was at least partly to try and counteract the tendency of some to slip under the radar..... Fortunately most in my areas were public spirited enough to helpfully fill in the forms

[KenR]

Hi Solihull

KenR - the Scottish Census has always seemed to ask more useful questions about travel to school/ education as well as travel to work - they must leave out some of the other English questions...

Correct, just had a rehearsal for the 2011 Scottish Census, the questionnaire runs to 28 pages!

It's also fair to say that both the Scottish and Irish Census Offices (GROS and CSO) and far more enlightened about the opportunties for making money out of census data.