Topsy-turvy logic??

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:01 pm

Tipsy - where on earth would you find all the teachers for your plan?! A class of 10 is far too small according to most of the research.

No everyone can be a good teacher and it takes time to train those with potential.

Vocational studies? Which Private schools do these and what do you mean by this phrase?

huntlie · Post by **huntlie** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:32 pm

The topsy-turvy logic will be even beter shown in a forthcoming 'Spectator' debate - on Grammar Schools! As usual, those against Grammars will be perfect examples of pulling the ladder up - i.e. we had it good, now your kids can't have any choice - the opposers are - Simon Jenkins, son of a doctor, went to Mill Hill (private) Charles Clarke went to Highgate School (private) and best of all Polly Toynbee (d. of literary critic Philip) went to Badminton (private). Makes you want to weep.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:49 pm

huntlie wrote:The topsy-turvy logic will be even beter shown in a forthcoming 'Spectator' debate - on Grammar Schools! As usual, those against Grammars will be perfect examples of pulling the ladder up - i.e. we had it good, now your kids can't have any choice - the opposers are - Simon Jenkins, son of a doctor, went to Mill Hill (private) Charles Clarke went to Highgate School (private) and best of all Polly Toynbee (d. of literary critic Philip) went to Badminton (private). Makes you want to weep.

I absolutely agree with you! What I was trying to say earlier is that my heart goes out to those parents who have no chance of a good school for their kids.
I can understand their frustration, which some see as envy, when it is expressed in terms of wanting to abolish grammar schools ( or private) and try to level the proverbial playing field.(not that I agree)
However I cannot get anything but cross with those who have benefitted from the system wanting to change it.They are least equipped to understand what the disempowered feel.
People want better schools for all not lower standards for everyone.
Little rant over

Looking for help · Post by **Looking for help** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:22 pm

I am anti independent schools, but not because I am jealous or envious = it's because I went to one

I feel that they do not equip children with the right tools to become well adjusted people in a challenging world - I know that many of my peers were completely unable to cope with university life and went off the rails.
Yes the class sizes were small, and yes we all got good grades, but you know there is more to education than just good grades.
I welcome debate on issues like this and also on whether grammar schools should be abolished, because I fervently believe that education is a right not a privilege, and that all individuals whatever their background deserve the same rights.
I apologise in advance for my views, having been corrected on previous occasions I no longer venture often into the indie section, but just every now and then a thread catches my eye

LFH

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi LFH,

Please do venture into this section.My children , as you know, are in state schools and yet I enjoy the debates on this section. I hope although my experience is different, that we all have something to add that is helpful. There will not be truly informed debate if we all stay in our own little enclaves.
That's what I enjoy about this website.

It is at its best when there is a true sharing of varied experiences.We can all learn from eachother.

Off to watch the final of "The Apprentice".

Looking for help · Post by **Looking for help** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:30 pm

HI CM - me too

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:03 pm

I enjoy reading others views, even if I find them offensive, ridiculous or weird!

I do think though that we shouldn't decide that a certain school is not good because of our own personal experiences. I went to an awful school but am happy to acknowledge that there are excellent state schools. Some inde's are shockingly bad as well as others that are amazing.

LFH, most inde's are not interested in exam results - they feel there is more to life than just conventional learning. Unfortunately due to constraints and government targets many state schools have only become about grades. As for not being able to live in the real world that may have been your experience but most private school children/adults I've met have been charming, eloquent, confident and successful. My schooling did not help me to live in the real world but only in the world of underachievement and low self-esteem.

Ed's mum · Post by **Ed's mum** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Well , I don't know about you guys, but I chose the best school for my son. Surely THAT is what is important. I happen to think that my daughter could go anywhere and succeed but I feel the need to offer to her what has been given to Ed.

There is probably a place for all different types of school. I have nothing against state schools - I teach in one! I don't think that independent schools should be abolished but I would have been extremely upset if my child had not got a place there. Would it make me want to close them all down? No way! But I would have felt frustrated at not being able to afford to send him to the best school for him.

I guess we were 'lucky' that our wishes happened to become a reality. Ask me how I feel after our daughter has been through the selection process. I cannot even begin to imagine how I will feel if she is unsuccessful with a scholarship and bursary. That will be the testing time I suppose.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:12 pm

Ed's mum wrote:
I guess we were 'lucky' that our wishes happened to become a reality. Ask me how I feel after our daughter has been through the selection process. I cannot even begin to imagine how I will feel if she is unsuccessful with a scholarship and bursary. That will be the testing time I suppose.

I am with you on this last point.I was attempting to say this in my earlier two posts.Many of us who post on this forum have not been "tested" in this way.
It is easy to defend the place of grammars and Independents when we have children there due to academic ability or (relative) wealth.I think we might feel differently if we had a child on the SEN spectrum who had the choice of a relatively poorly performing school, which to cap it all had the top 25% creamed off to grammar.As I said before that does seriously affect the learning environment of the other 75%.(And it is this percentage in some areas)

Let us try and be gracious about the frustration and even anger of others and not widely condemn it as envy and jealousy.Even if we don't have children in mainstream schools we should all have an interest in raising their standards for the good of all - surely

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:16 pm

Won't be long until you're a MOD CM!