How Do Independent Schools Do It?
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T.i.p.s.y
Tipsy - actually I think GCSEs are very dumbed down. I hear in a recent experiment the children were taught one GCSE module (normally 6 weeks work?) for one hour - and many got As, most got a grade B.
Of course independents offer other things - as do all the good comprehensives. But equally we know that kids in independent schools also have private tutors and struggle at university in terms of not being spoon fed. I am not saying selective schools don't have lots of good things going for them but rather why only 80%. You ask for examples well how about Godolphin, Latymer.. to name but two
Of course independents offer other things - as do all the good comprehensives. But equally we know that kids in independent schools also have private tutors and struggle at university in terms of not being spoon fed. I am not saying selective schools don't have lots of good things going for them but rather why only 80%. You ask for examples well how about Godolphin, Latymer.. to name but two
The IGCSE are harder because there is no coursework grading, it is purely based on an exam, which means that coursework can't be corrected and even re-corrected to get a better grade for that part of the GCSE.ealingmum wrote:Tipsy - don't give me that old chestnut about the IGCSE. Some of them are not more difficult than the GCSE, only different - I know independent schools pick the IGCSE because their pupils find it easier.; besides most private schools still do mostly GCSE and A levels. GS of course virtually all teach GCSES.
More generally, with selective intakes and the dumbing down of GCSE's why only 80% or less in some cases. Is it because their selective recruitment process is flawed to the extent than 1 in 5 kids are not that bright. Is is because the pupils burn out and switch off. Or is it that the teaching in some of these indpendent schools is average at best.
The best comprehensive schools achieve as good or near as good outcomes as GS and indpendents. So what are the indpendents doing with all the money?
ealingmum, why are you so anti-private schools?
IGCSEs test knowledge not understanding - so they can be crammed for.
Coursework guidelines are extremely strict - I had (Maths coursework has now gone) to sign a form saying I had obeyed the rules as did the candidate. Syllabuses change in September to 'controlled' assessments - ie all work has to be done in school/
Coursework guidelines are extremely strict - I had (Maths coursework has now gone) to sign a form saying I had obeyed the rules as did the candidate. Syllabuses change in September to 'controlled' assessments - ie all work has to be done in school/
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T.i.p.s.y
I'm not sure Ealingmum is anti-independent but probably trying to work out if her local ones are worth the cash! 
On the whole, London does operate a different system and a vast number of children are coached so I am not convinced they would get in without it. The other problem with London schools is that they are mostly selective and frankly there cannot be that many kids in the top 25% as it's impossible. What I would say though is that independent schools in London are worth the money if you are worried about safety. I mentioned our local one which has had 7 knife crime incidents and the school is classed as good by ofsted.
On the whole, London does operate a different system and a vast number of children are coached so I am not convinced they would get in without it. The other problem with London schools is that they are mostly selective and frankly there cannot be that many kids in the top 25% as it's impossible. What I would say though is that independent schools in London are worth the money if you are worried about safety. I mentioned our local one which has had 7 knife crime incidents and the school is classed as good by ofsted.T-4-2 - how can you say I am anti-indepent schools. I am not. Though I am probably questionning the value-add - in those selective schools t hat seem to coast to adequate but not spectacular outcomes partly measured by results.
Guest 55 is right - IGCSE are different. some no doubt are more difficult but as more a test of knowledge are more doable for that type of student.
With all the scrutiny that comprehensive schools get - rightly - why not shine a light on private schools. If it improves performance still further what's wrong with that.
Guest 55 is right - IGCSE are different. some no doubt are more difficult but as more a test of knowledge are more doable for that type of student.
With all the scrutiny that comprehensive schools get - rightly - why not shine a light on private schools. If it improves performance still further what's wrong with that.
Interesting thread. My experience is that, contrary to most opinion, indies do not 'drill' for exams in the same way that many comprehensives do. I know the intense focus on doing the exam in our local comp with endless practice papers, after school revision, analysis of mark schemes etc. The local indie just does a few practice papers just before the exam (talking GCSE here) in the belief that other things are as important. Don't know who's right about that, but it might explain the 80% figure. Also many apparently selective indies have sizeable cohorts who were 'selected' at 3 and 7. A lot can happen in the years between! I'd question more some super-selective GS who can pick their whole cohort at 11 and (again local experience here) get only marginally 'better' A*/A results.
Tipsy - I am not overly worried about safety in local comprehensive schools; this is good in the local schools. I do worry though about some of the attitudes that seem to prevail in some of the indpendent schools:
- eg reference by a independent school pupil in the school magazine no less about "chavs";
- drugs - some independent schools seem to tolerate drugs or at least turn a blind eye;
- children with strained to say the least relationships with their parents - c.f. Dr Rae memoirs of his time as head at Westminster School;
The big issue I guess is with education spending cuts coming for the nex 6/7 years is is a state school a good place to be?
- eg reference by a independent school pupil in the school magazine no less about "chavs";
- drugs - some independent schools seem to tolerate drugs or at least turn a blind eye;
- children with strained to say the least relationships with their parents - c.f. Dr Rae memoirs of his time as head at Westminster School;
The big issue I guess is with education spending cuts coming for the nex 6/7 years is is a state school a good place to be?
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T.i.p.s.y
No school tolerates drugs but I would say they are just as rife in a London comp as any school. The memoirs of that Head date back to the 1970's and not all his views are respected. It is children who bring them into school and if anyone thinks there is less drugs in comps than other schools then they are in for a rude awakening (not directing that at you ealingmum).Drugs, nowadays, at Westminster carries an automatic expulsion unless there is a valid reason for that not to be the case. Many state schools are under pressure not to expel students because of targets, so I know what one I'd be more concerned about on that front.
I wouldn't worry about spending cuts if the tories get in because so much money has been wasted on initiative after initiative. Just think of the wasted millions saved on SATS marking alone and I'm sure a lot of the needless waste will be scrapped too. If times are tough and jobs scarce then good teachers will also stay which will be a positive.
Living in Ealing I see plenty of private school pupils near the Broadway each day and their behaviour and manners are pretty poor. Maybe urban schools are like that but apart from "protection" and having a parent cohort who are interested in their education I'm not sure if the schools are much better - I hope someone will correct me on this. The safety issue is enough for me though, but that's just my opinion.
I wouldn't worry about spending cuts if the tories get in because so much money has been wasted on initiative after initiative. Just think of the wasted millions saved on SATS marking alone and I'm sure a lot of the needless waste will be scrapped too. If times are tough and jobs scarce then good teachers will also stay which will be a positive.
Living in Ealing I see plenty of private school pupils near the Broadway each day and their behaviour and manners are pretty poor. Maybe urban schools are like that but apart from "protection" and having a parent cohort who are interested in their education I'm not sure if the schools are much better - I hope someone will correct me on this. The safety issue is enough for me though, but that's just my opinion.
