How Do Independent Schools Do It?

SunlampVexesEel · Post by **SunlampVexesEel** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:44 pm

I watched some of the "Social Mobility Debate" on BBC Parliament... how sad am I!

They are up to something! Although we'll probably have a new government by the time they try and legislate.

http://www.alanmilburn.co.uk/social_mobility_debate

For the life of me I have no idea what they plan to do... maybe that's just politicans for you!

Regards
SVE

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:53 pm

Loopyloulou wrote:
huntlie wrote: In fact, year on year, the % of girls going to Russell Group universities is only a shade lower than that of Nonsuch.
There are about 150,000 pupils at grammar schools, and about 300,000 aged 11-18 at indies, so all things being equal you'd expect twice as many ex-indie pupils at Oxbridge as ex-GS pupils. Of course all things aren't equal since (as you point out) on average GS's are much more selective.

So it is interesting that in fact there are more like three times as many ex-indie pupils at Oxbridge as ex-GS pupils. How do they do it indeed?

LLL,
I have a daughter who at the tender age of 13 is determined she is going to Cambridge. ( Her ambition entirely)I was the first in my family history to get to University.(A Russell group one not that I knew that until I came on this site!)
Nonetheless I feel utterly ill equipped to help her achieve her goal.

I read contradictory things on websites.

I am not sure what/ how/when to approach interviews when the time comes.
Isn't it the case that indep school students are armed with every advantage . Their schools know how to prepare them. They do not have to bow to every Govt. directive and are able to work on the social skills that help.
Even recently I overheard a conversation about how work experience in year 10 should be geared towards " Oxbridge C.V".Such talk utterly disconcerts me.I have no connections to ask for placements unlike the people I overheard.

Indep educated students are at an advantage over their grammar school counterparts , no doubt of that, but not purely because of the quality of their teachers but because some of the latter are the product of parents like me, feeling their way in the "darkness" of the system they still feel somewhat outsiders in.

This thread is in danger of sounding smug, not individuals ,but the collective back slapping.Have a little bit of a heart everyone for those feeling their way in the education system..please

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:57 pm

Loopyloulou wrote:I think you're right cm.

Lower class sizes, better teaching, a more rounded education, a better chance in life - these are the things we are paying for.

Did you just agree with me? How nice

huntlie · Post by **huntlie** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:53 pm

On the other hand, CM, Sutton High has very large numbers of girls who come up from the Junior School & are not necessarily of GS ability. Also, they have many in the VI form who have barely scraped GCSEs.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:08 pm

huntlie wrote:On the other hand, CM, Sutton High has very large numbers of girls who come up from the Junior School & are not necessarily of GS ability. Also, they have many in the VI form who have barely scraped GCSEs.

Yes but then there is the repeating refrain of class sizes and parental ability to help.
I am not saying that they don't deserve credit but they are well advantaged. Furthermore I do believe that the indep sector is generally more" in the know " about how to access Oxbridge.As I said in another post I have no idea how to help DD with that ambition.

As regards scraping GCSEs , I am sure any school would advise students carefully which subjects to take at A level if their GCSE results were not outstanding.
It is NO surprise to me that a school like Sutton High does so well given the social advantages of its intake ,and obv some good teaching too.However the former carries more weight I feel.
When we lived thereabouts for many years, DD always wanted to go there because of the Uniform.I always thought it was "out of our league "but now realise that she might have stood a very good chance with bursaries etc.A lot comes down to being "in the know".

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:39 pm

Chelmsfordmum: I wouldn't worry about your DD. Oxbridge admissions tutors these days are trained to see through overly 'advantaged' pupils. The websites for the universities give all the information you need and you need not feel your DD would be at a disadvantage. Some pupils may think or indeed be encouraged to think they are 'in the know' but they are not. Oxbridge admissions are looking for the brightest and the best regardless of where they were educated and regardless of their backgrounds. Any amount of expensive schooling is not going to mask someone who is not that bright in the first place. If your daughter is answers questions at interview intelligently and without arrogance, I am sure she would be fine and certainly not at any disadvantage.

huntlie · Post by **huntlie** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:42 pm

Yes, social advantages, but the exact same advantages are enjoyed by Nonsuch pupils nowadays (it's been many years since girls from Rosehill dominated there!) - many more go there from Seaton House (the private prep) for example, than go to SHS, and you are just as likely to find girls from South Cheam mansions at Nonsuch as at SHS! Also, many parents are 'bustin' their ass**' to keep their girl at SHS, and Nonsuch parents / pupils have no such pressure. Not all SHS parents are rich - far from it.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:00 pm

Thanks Mum3. I hope you are right.It is just disconcerting to hear others talk sometimes.

Huntlie, I only left the area two years ago and am well aware of the intakes.You and I have agreed on other threads about the intensive prepping that forms the intake of Nonsuch and such schools, on the whole.

However had we stayed both of mine would have got in.They passed a more rigorous test for less places here in a higher performing school in Essex.Likewise I have many friends from the state primary they used to go to who got in.
There may be a woeful percentage of local girls from state schools but they are still some and NONE live in Cheam in mansions .These girls (and off the top of my head I can think of 15 in last year's intake that fit this description) do not have the advantages of the Sutton high intake or the class sizes/ interview prep for Oxbridge.

"Rich" is a relative term.Certainly all those I know are much, much better off than us.DON'T get me wrong, good luck to them but they ARE more privileged than many.Many families are working very hard who have children in GS too.

"Nonsuch parents have no pressure. "Well for us hundreds of pounds for a uniform for GS was pressure.Everything is relative isn't it.
I do not accept that the "exact same advantages are enjoyed by Nonsuch pupils". I know too many families who prove not.

P.S

just re read that.Sounded bragging about daughters.Didn't mean it that way

Just trying to make the point that not all GS kids are from mansions and indep schools, no boasting intended.

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:06 pm

CM, do not be worried but feel relieved that you now have this knowledge about Oxbridge entrance. Knowledge is Power!

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:08 pm

T.i.p.s.y wrote:CM, do not be worried but feel relieved that you now have this knowledge about Oxbridge entrance. Knowledge is Power!

Don't feel I have any knowledge

I am researching though!