How Do Independent Schools Do It?

[Looking for help]

I agree - I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem right to positively discriminate against someone who has been privately educated, if that is what is happening. It certainly doesn't do the pro - independents any good, as the rest of us cry 'foul' Probably because we're mad - and anyway I keep slapping myself on the wrist for entering into the indie section - I shouldn't do it, I don't know why I do

LFH

[T.i.p.s.y]

Do enter, a debate is good! I keep rising to the bait (not that you were baiting me) so I am head slapping!

[Looking for help]

Why thankyou Tipsy - where do you get your emoticons from? They are great
LFH

[T.i.p.s.y]

Click properties on the emoticion and it gives the website names.

[Loopyloulou]

Tipsy - you've given away your secret !!!

Too much champagne I suspect...

[huntlie]

It depends what you mean by 'selective!' How about this alternative question, using specific examples local to my family? The first school named is Independent, the second Grammar.

'How on earth do Sutton High do it? They only have about 120 or so applicants from which to choose for their 75 places, owing to being fee-paying, and most of their girls have tried and failed to get in to Nonsuch. Furthermore, unlike Nonsuch, they do not throw anyone out after GCSE if results are not up to scratch. AND YET...year on year, Sutton High's results are wonderful, way above what you'd expect from a school with such a tiny pool from which to 'select.'

In fact, year on year, the % of girls going to Russell Group universities is only a shade lower than that of Nonsuch. How on earth do they do that, when they do not weed out post GCSE, and they do not get the creme de la creme beating down their doors at 16+?

Gice some credit, please!

[sj355]

I agree - I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem right to positively discriminate against someone who has been privately educated, if that is what is happening. It certainly doesn't do the pro - independents any good, as the rest of us cry 'foul' Probably because we're mad - and anyway I keep slapping myself on the wrist for entering into the indie section - I shouldn't do it, I don't know why I do

It is well documented in research that we tend to hire people that have intrinsic characteristics similar to ours (this includes colour, race, gender, knowing someone from school, etc) as we consider it much easier to reliably indentify ("decode") the ability of such people as compared to other people who do not belong in these "same" groups. In large organisations this problem is resolved by ensuring diversity in the recruiting department, but in small companies there is no obvious way to tackle this; indeed I am not sure that it should be tackled at all.

[Loopyloulou]

In fact, year on year, the % of girls going to Russell Group universities is only a shade lower than that of Nonsuch.

There are about 150,000 pupils at grammar schools, and about 300,000 aged 11-18 at indies, so all things being equal you'd expect twice as many ex-indie pupils at Oxbridge as ex-GS pupils. Of course all things aren't equal since (as you point out) on average GS's are much more selective.

So it is interesting that in fact there are more like three times as many ex-indie pupils at Oxbridge as ex-GS pupils. How do they do it indeed?

[Chelmsford mum]

It depends what you mean by 'selective!' How about this alternative question, using specific examples local to my family? The first school named is Independent, the second Grammar.

'How on earth do Sutton High do it? They only have about 120 or so applicants from which to choose for their 75 places, owing to being fee-paying, and most of their girls have tried and failed to get in to Nonsuch. Furthermore, unlike Nonsuch, they do not throw anyone out after GCSE if results are not up to scratch. AND YET...year on year, Sutton High's results are wonderful, way above what you'd expect from a school with such a tiny pool from which to 'select.'

In fact, year on year, the % of girls going to Russell Group universities is only a shade lower than that of Nonsuch. How on earth do they do that, when they do not weed out post GCSE, and they do not get the creme de la creme beating down their doors at 16+?

Gice some credit, please!

I know both schools in question and several girls at each.The girls from Sutton High have generally missed grammar by poor performance on the day, not low ability.
The parents who choose Sutton High as their back up are affluent, educated parents willing and financially able to plug any gaps that may(or may not ) appear through tutoring and family support.
Class sizes very low too.
Perhaps more than grammar girls, these girls have everything going for them. If the school did not succeed with every advantage it has it would be very surprising.

[Loopyloulou]

I think you're right cm.

Lower class sizes, better teaching, a more rounded education, a better chance in life - these are the things we are paying for.