Dilemma! Mandarin or Latin??? Which is better?

Snowdrops · Post by **Snowdrops** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:56 am

.... and apparently the Chinese are desperate to learn ................. Latin!!

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:05 am

And with only 4% of state schools teaching Latin DD will certainly have an advantage. Not that I want to run my kids lifes (ahem) but I am encouraging languages because with such a rapid decline in schools it may be the only way DC's get into Oxbridge!

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:18 am

I thought I had posted a lengthy reply to this last night but it must have vanished or been removed, though I was very respectful, I think.

I am a languages graduate and teacher, and have taught several of the languages you mention. My own DD is going to study both Mandarin and Latin to GCSE as she loves them both - I can't help her with either of these - maybe that is why she has chosen them!. I do have some reservations about the grades in Mandarin, but the Oxbridge advisor at DD's school says that Mandarin on a UCAS form will stand out and pick a candidate out from others, and a slightly lower grade will be offset by novelty value. The general tone of this forum is, I think, slightly anti-Mandarin, writing it off as a fad, or hype, but of course it is the most widely spoken language in the world and I would certainly argue that it has more merit as a language choice than French, which is now automatically assumed to be A Good Thing as early as primary school. I have a slight personal antipathy to Spanish, having struggled to master it myself to any level, but it is a safe and easy GCSE for those who might not be natural linguists but who have to take a MFL as part of their school's language policy.

Latin is my DD's absolute favourite subject, though how much of this is down to a remarkably inspirational young teacher and how much to the subject is not clear to me. It does have many merits for its own sake and I would have to agree, that other things being equal (quality of teacher, previous results at the school) then it would be the better choice. What a pity she hasn't got a free choice and could lose the French!

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:32 am

I personally am not anti-Mandarin I just think Latin is the better option in this case. I would urge anyone to take up Spanish though because of it's geographical prominence and it is far more useful than Mandarin, however I will encourage DC's to take this up too. I wish I had been bilingual or multilingual and if a child is able they should seize the opportunity to learn as many languages as practical.

suncrest · Post by **suncrest** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:50 am

Amber wrote:What a pity she hasn't got a free choice and could lose the French!

Amber I quite agree....my DS Y7 Loves Latin and Spanish and would love to take up Mandarin but it seems he cannot loose the French - it has to be either Spanish or Latin that goes!

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:59 am

suncrest wrote:
Amber wrote:What a pity she hasn't got a free choice and could lose the French!
Amber I quite agree....my DS Y7 Loves Latin and Spanish and would love to take up Mandarin but it seems he cannot loose the French - it has to be either Spanish or Latin that goes!

There is unfortunately a deeply-ingrained tradition of teaching French first and foremost to all children. It is a source of frustration to me - not an especially useful language and not really a route into any other languages either. It is also relatively difficult (compared with Spanish, and IMHO, German) so puts a lot of children off the whole idea of foreign language learning.

I take your point about Spanish, Tipsy, and indeed used to argue for it to be taught more widely - it is useful. It is, however, not especially academic and would certainly not cause a university admissions officer to get excited. Oh, and don't assume that languages are a passport to a great career - I am proof of that!

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:50 am

Fair point Amber. Interestingly though I have a Belgian friend who has lived in Spain since she was 8 and she says that although Spanish is initially easier than French it then becomes much harder later on. Of course I cannot speak either and I stuck to the ever so simple German which is virtually like speaking rough Scots anyway!

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:57 am

although Spanish is initially easier than French it then becomes much harder later on.

My experience entirely. I did Spanish as a subsidiary at University and was shocked to find it hard once I got to about A level standard, having always found languages easy to learn until then. For GCSE though, it is a comparative walk in the park! (Sits and waits to be shot down!).

KB · Post by KB » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:26 pm

I think there is a practical problem with replacing French as the main MFL in secondary schools - teachers! Historically, many schools have a history of French being compulsory to GCSE so they employed French specialists - if students are going to be able to opt out of French to other MFLs there will be staffing issues that might take some time to address.

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:13 pm

While that seems sensible on the face of it KB, there is definitely more to it than that. I have tried really hard to persuade 2 schools I have been teaching in most recently to offer German on top of the usual French-Spanish mix. There was certainly enough staff expertise in both cases to do it - 2 of us were more highly qualified in German (and in my case Russian) than French or Spanish. There was a whole list of arguments against it - timetabling, the parents wouldn't like it, 'no demand', 'we've never done German' - it was like banging my head against the proverbial wall. There are actually plenty of teachers able to offer other languages, but the culture of 'French first' is so deeply ingrained. I have offered my services free to a local primary to offer German or Russian as the teachers there are struggling with French. What do you think the answer was?