Late Move to Prep Dilemma...
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sherrie - our thinking was that DS could stay at state school and take the Sutton Grammar test (plus Whitgift and Trinity) at 11 but might well fail the lot. He has just been listed as "gifted" at literacy but realistically his maths is not exceptional (its not awful either though). He does have a maths tutor once a week.
If he failed at 11+, we would then be totally stuck. Would we send him to prep school for Year 7 and 8 (with a view to the CEO at 13 or a non selective indie) or would we accept the very poor comp that is our only state school alternative and then pull him out in Year 9 again for CEO or non selective indie? There isn't a non-selective indie option that takes children from age 11-18 as far as I know.
If we kept him in state school we are putting all our eggs in to one basket (ie hoping that the maths tuition works sufficiently quickly to get him through at least one 11+ exam).
Tipsy - Yes that is our thinking. DS will still take the 11+ but without everything hanging on the results. If he failed, we would keep him at prep school and have more options at age 13. If he failed the 11+ at state school we would be in limbo for 2 years until he was 13 and could either retake exams or start non selective indie eductaion.
Oh dear - I've confused myself now
If he failed at 11+, we would then be totally stuck. Would we send him to prep school for Year 7 and 8 (with a view to the CEO at 13 or a non selective indie) or would we accept the very poor comp that is our only state school alternative and then pull him out in Year 9 again for CEO or non selective indie? There isn't a non-selective indie option that takes children from age 11-18 as far as I know.
If we kept him in state school we are putting all our eggs in to one basket (ie hoping that the maths tuition works sufficiently quickly to get him through at least one 11+ exam).
Tipsy - Yes that is our thinking. DS will still take the 11+ but without everything hanging on the results. If he failed, we would keep him at prep school and have more options at age 13. If he failed the 11+ at state school we would be in limbo for 2 years until he was 13 and could either retake exams or start non selective indie eductaion.
Oh dear - I've confused myself now
Dont have any info about your local schools but do have experience of moving into Prep in year 5 & its the best decision we could have made.
Prep only went to year 6 & then majority transferred to Senior school so DC was only there a short while & always felt a bit different to those who had been there since age of 3! But a few others in the year had joined late on & DC made good friends with a small number of each 'type'.
If Senior Indie seems likely then I would certainly move DS as soon as you can. I don't have knowledge of the 13+ Preps but presumably if you move him to one of those he can still try for transfer at 11+? He won't be any less prepared for transfer at this age than if he stays at State Primary.
I would ceratinly advise taking DS to look at the options once you have narrowed down the field as he will settle in alot quicker if he feel 'at home' with the school & also if he believes he has been consulted in the decision making process.
Re the single gender education - we have a range of experiences on this one! I do agree with you about single-sex education for boys (as long as they have access to mixed groups outside of school so respect girls as 'friends') but I would advise thinking very careful about single-sex education for your DD. Do visit the schools & get to know as much about the girls who go there as you can. Some can breed a less than healthy attitude to the opposite gender.
If your DD goes to a good mixed Prep school and is confident and independently minded it doesn't follow that she will be distracted by or defer to the boys. However she will have the opportunity to learn how to realate to them as she is growing up & this might prepare her better for life after school. Our experience of mixed Indie is that the mixed gender friendship groups had many advantages.
The bright girls certainly didnt defer to the boys in Science or Maths subjects. I do have some knowledge of the research you referred to (part of my Uni studies) but with good teaching & strong role models it doesn't have to be an issue. I went to a mixed GS & didn't experience it and neither did DD at a mixed Indie.
My experience is that at a 'good' mixed senior school, where all the students are encouraged to be independent & confident, the girls naturally mature more quickly & tend to dominate the boys which is why I would choose single gender education for DS - to give him more opportunity to take develop his organisational & leadership skills.
Prep only went to year 6 & then majority transferred to Senior school so DC was only there a short while & always felt a bit different to those who had been there since age of 3! But a few others in the year had joined late on & DC made good friends with a small number of each 'type'.
If Senior Indie seems likely then I would certainly move DS as soon as you can. I don't have knowledge of the 13+ Preps but presumably if you move him to one of those he can still try for transfer at 11+? He won't be any less prepared for transfer at this age than if he stays at State Primary.
I would ceratinly advise taking DS to look at the options once you have narrowed down the field as he will settle in alot quicker if he feel 'at home' with the school & also if he believes he has been consulted in the decision making process.
Re the single gender education - we have a range of experiences on this one! I do agree with you about single-sex education for boys (as long as they have access to mixed groups outside of school so respect girls as 'friends') but I would advise thinking very careful about single-sex education for your DD. Do visit the schools & get to know as much about the girls who go there as you can. Some can breed a less than healthy attitude to the opposite gender.
If your DD goes to a good mixed Prep school and is confident and independently minded it doesn't follow that she will be distracted by or defer to the boys. However she will have the opportunity to learn how to realate to them as she is growing up & this might prepare her better for life after school. Our experience of mixed Indie is that the mixed gender friendship groups had many advantages.
The bright girls certainly didnt defer to the boys in Science or Maths subjects. I do have some knowledge of the research you referred to (part of my Uni studies) but with good teaching & strong role models it doesn't have to be an issue. I went to a mixed GS & didn't experience it and neither did DD at a mixed Indie.
My experience is that at a 'good' mixed senior school, where all the students are encouraged to be independent & confident, the girls naturally mature more quickly & tend to dominate the boys which is why I would choose single gender education for DS - to give him more opportunity to take develop his organisational & leadership skills.
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hermanmunster
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The 13+ seemed a bit of a nightmare in that area this year as Sherry says. Very tricky - - I go with your wishes to have coed primary and single gender senior - we wanted that and almost managed it except DD did 3 years at primary in all girls and loved it.
All I can say, and it ain't rally helpful, is that what we considered at that stage and what we ended up doing are 2 entirely different things!! So much can happen,... - best to keep options as open as possible.
Meanwhile there is always the beautiful North Yorkshire countryside with single gender high performing (but not over fanatically selective) Grammar Schools
All I can say, and it ain't rally helpful, is that what we considered at that stage and what we ended up doing are 2 entirely different things!! So much can happen,... - best to keep options as open as possible.
Meanwhile there is always the beautiful North Yorkshire countryside with single gender high performing (but not over fanatically selective) Grammar Schools
Yes, I agree with much of this (trimmed quote but referring to all of it). I only have sons, but the flirty one is at all the all boys' and the other is going to a mixed grammar since I don't think he even knows what girls are so hopefully won't fall into the normal traps.loopylou wrote:DH and I both went to single gender schools and believe (wrongly or rightly) that pupils there will be more focused on their learning and distanced from the hormonal distractions of trying to impress / worrying about the opposite gender. We feel that girls will be less concerned about competition for boy's attention and that bright boys will be less concerned about looking "geeky" in front of the girls etc.
Have nothing useful to add to your dilemma. Am still so glad that that level of leap (primary to secondary) is done and done that am still a little gung ho about it all. Good luck with whatever you decide.
KB - Thank you for sharing your experience. I am so glad that it worked out well and that you had such a positive outcome 
It makes me feel much happier about exploring this option. I was interested too to read your experience regarding single sex schools. I must admit we have probably given less thought to DD's future schooling simply as she is so young. I guess the key thing, as you say, is finding a good school where pupils are encouraged and teaching is strong.
hermanmunster - That would be my dream. To move to somewhere with beautiful surroundings and opt out of the London / Surrey educational rat race (no offence to any London or Surrey schools but this super-selection is a real headache for mere mortal folk). Unfortunately, work commitments make this would be impossible just now.
I must admit to having missed issues surrounding 13+ entry problems so will definitely look in to this. Our plan is to keep as many options open at 11 and 13 as possible. As you say, we just don't know yet what will happen re exams or how we / DS will feel about schools in two years time. We just don't want to find ourselves in the position in 2 years time where DS fails to quite a GS place and we have absolutely no other school option as a back up.
It makes me feel much happier about exploring this option. I was interested too to read your experience regarding single sex schools. I must admit we have probably given less thought to DD's future schooling simply as she is so young. I guess the key thing, as you say, is finding a good school where pupils are encouraged and teaching is strong. hermanmunster - That would be my dream. To move to somewhere with beautiful surroundings and opt out of the London / Surrey educational rat race (no offence to any London or Surrey schools but this super-selection is a real headache for mere mortal folk). Unfortunately, work commitments make this would be impossible just now.
I must admit to having missed issues surrounding 13+ entry problems so will definitely look in to this. Our plan is to keep as many options open at 11 and 13 as possible. As you say, we just don't know yet what will happen re exams or how we / DS will feel about schools in two years time. We just don't want to find ourselves in the position in 2 years time where DS fails to quite a GS place and we have absolutely no other school option as a back up.
This post here could be a start, someone had a similar problemloopylou wrote: I must admit to having missed issues surrounding 13+ entry problems so will definitely look in to this.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=13717
and this
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=14294
have friends whose dcs did 13+ this year for Whitgift and Trinity - Whitgift had 5 places and Trinity had 15. Whitgift had over 100 boys applying and Trinity had just under 100. I can't remember the exact figures but I think Whitgift might have been as high as 160.
surreymum wrote:I can confirm the number of places at 13+ for Trinity and Whitgift this year. We know delightful boys this year who did not get a place at Trinity who would have definitely got a place at 11+. Although this year group for Whitgift is exceptional in size, the school has been saying for some time that they cannot guarantee there will be places at 13+ (although they will always make an exception for a talented sportsman).
Impossible is Nothing.
Thank you Milla
Thank you sherry_d too. 5 places left at 13+ sounds very grim indeed (and DS is very defintiely not a talented musician. Even from a biased mother point of view I would have to concede he lacks any musical ability at all
)
This has been so useful - thank you. These are the kinds of things that are very hard to find out on your own and having the benefit of other people's experiences and decisions has really helped. I feel very sorry for the people who have found themselves without a place this year though.
Thank you sherry_d too. 5 places left at 13+ sounds very grim indeed (and DS is very defintiely not a talented musician. Even from a biased mother point of view I would have to concede he lacks any musical ability at all
)This has been so useful - thank you. These are the kinds of things that are very hard to find out on your own and having the benefit of other people's experiences and decisions has really helped. I feel very sorry for the people who have found themselves without a place this year though.
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hermanmunster
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There are other issues with single-gender girls' schools too. My DD begged us not to consider one as she has always found 'wall to wall girls' very difficult: there can be a lot of b****y behaviour and cliquiness (spelling?) - and this is certainly what one of her more tomboyish friends, now at an all-girls GS, has found - she has never really got the hang of the social scene. I know, I know it happens at mixed schools too (we've had our fair share) but DD has often been very grateful for the presence of some boys to take the heat out of some of the extreme girly behaviour. Anecdotally (from 2 separate doctor friends) I think that eating disorders might be more common in all-girls schools too, though I stress I have no data to verify this and would be happy to be proved wrong.Re the single gender education - we have a range of experiences on this one! I do agree with you about single-gender education for boys (as long as they have access to mixed groups outside of school so respect girls as 'friends') but I would advise thinking very careful about single-gender education for your DD. Do visit the schools & get to know as much about the girls who go there as you can. Some can breed a less than healthy attitude to the opposite gender.
Just a couple of thoughts, no more.
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Chelmsford mum
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Hello,
A bit late joining this and a bit of a rushed post but feel free to pm me.Despite my current user name, my recent roots over a decade are elsewhere, namely Surrey.
I know all the schools you mention very well and have friends in all of them.
If you really have a preference for these three schools at 11 + entry then I see no gain in a switch to indep school.All the children and I am talking about 20 + when I add them up all gained entry through state schools with some extra tutition to Sutton, Trinity and Whitgift. In fact several children I know failed the grammar tests and still gained entry to the two indep schols.
However if you believe that your child is really borderline and may well not make the grammar intake then I would advise earlier entry to one of the indeps that goes all the way through.There are some in the Croydon area apart from the two you have mentioned. I have rushed this as tea is cooking, but I know lots of girls and boys in indep and grammars in the area.Please pm me and apologies if I missed some points.
CM
A bit late joining this and a bit of a rushed post but feel free to pm me.Despite my current user name, my recent roots over a decade are elsewhere, namely Surrey.
I know all the schools you mention very well and have friends in all of them.If you really have a preference for these three schools at 11 + entry then I see no gain in a switch to indep school.All the children and I am talking about 20 + when I add them up all gained entry through state schools with some extra tutition to Sutton, Trinity and Whitgift. In fact several children I know failed the grammar tests and still gained entry to the two indep schols.
However if you believe that your child is really borderline and may well not make the grammar intake then I would advise earlier entry to one of the indeps that goes all the way through.There are some in the Croydon area apart from the two you have mentioned. I have rushed this as tea is cooking, but I know lots of girls and boys in indep and grammars in the area.Please pm me and apologies if I missed some points.
CM
