Thinking of Indipendent but worried about the money...

[Giulio]

I would always balance resources fairly on all our children, so if one gets private secondary education the others might get help with buying the house or a different treatment in the will, for example. Difficult to do as it might be, but different children means different needs.

What I am more interested is to understand to what lengths did OPs go with sacrifices, and what were the swings and the roundabouts for you.
Are all Indi parents just wealthy enough to pay it out of disposable income or just postpone the new Mercedes?
Are there parents that plan to sell the house and live their retirement in a flat, to give DCs a leg up with a better education?

For example, I could pay back the mortgage normally and eventually leave the house in inheritance (probably still below threshold for IHT). On the other hand, I could "pass on" the same wealth earlier in the form of school fees.

Or even, are there parents so committed to their DCs' education to moonlight for it, and build up debt to the point of sacrificing any security in elderly age ?

What sacrifies did you do, or are ready to do for DC's education, and what made you decide for or against?

[Waiting_For_Godot]

Assuming that we are talking about the London/Surrey Grammar schools then yes it is easier to get into the local independents but only because of the sheer volume applying for the grammar. Most of these independents are still selective but quite frankly I find less selective schools have far better teaching and are more rounded than many selective independent schools.

FWIW if I could only afford to send one to independent school then I would send my less able child or less confident child to help them along. Your other children have an excellent educational opportunity and if the local comprehensives are not good (which they may well be) and you can afford it then if DC does not get into Grammar School then I think she deserves the next best alternative.

As for fees for university, if you send your DC to the local comp then she may not even get to university and the priority will have been given to your first too. At the end of the day if a young adult wants to go to university then they can take out student loans. It's not ideal but it certainly isn't our job to feel we have to fund them through university. They are adults, it is their decision to go. I feel our main duty as a parent is 0-18 and therefore the focus should be on the now. Before I get flamed I am not saying that once they it 18 I would financially and emotionally cut my children off!

I hope DC gets into Grammar School. It sounds as if you have a bright family so the odds are in your favour.

[hermanmunster]

interesting thoughts.. I suspect that most parents have a little excess disposable income and then have to consider how they will get the rest ... increased mortgage, downsizing , more work etc....

Personally I paid for primary level out of earnings ... which I suppose would have been put towards the mortgage being paid off more quickly if I hadn't paid school fees.

However when it came to senior level (+uni) I did the sums (pre and post tax ) and came to the conclusion that I didn't want the kids to grow up in a family totally strapped for cash - I already drove the grottiest car in the prep school (coz I like it) so no scope for economising there.
To get the education I wanted for DCs I moved to areas with good Grammar Schools, fortunately I have a "moveable" job and there was nothing to stop us, they also passed the 11 plus (clearly different if this is not the case for DCs) .
The mortgage will be gone before University ... so I might just contribute there.... that is if they can find me in my retirement hideout - mwahaha

[Waiting_For_Godot]

I would not look at it as a 7 year commitment. Try moving for sixth form or if on the GS waiting list then perhaps there will be a vacancy earlier.

If the money can only come from your equity then you may well be in a position for some sort of bursary as gone are the days when one can release equity. If you apply to a less selective inde then a scholarship may also be an option.

As for paying fees, parents will do anything including getting into serious debt - not that I would suggest going down this route. And I know of friends who deliver take-aways, are cab drivers in the evenings to top up school fee income.

However I would not feel that I had to spend the same amount on each child. Surely you have a child that is involved in more activities than another. Do you really give the other child money because they aren't doing as many activities/learning another instrument? If you had a child with a disability and had to spend a lot of money on their needs would you then give the able child the same money? If a child is not academically able then they have needs but I personally think it's unhealthy that other children would expect the same things in monetary terms. It couldbe a dangerous road to go down.

[hermanmunster]

There are always ways of earning a bit extra cash... trouble is if you are paying school fees and not eligible (on income grounds) for a bursary, the treasury takes a mega chunk of anything you earn... at least 50%. Have to be doing quite well delivering pizzas etc to make it worthwhile. OK if the extra work pays at a good rate.

[blessedmum]

MY two dd are in indie primaries and I choose to work and support my DP to put them through. I will continue to work if it means them going into good indie sec schools. What a lot of people fail to realise is that school is not just about academics, there are some less selective indie's that have fantastic facilities and will get the most out of your children, help them find their strength and encourage their developent in that area. I know a lot of people that went to UNI having come from very academic schs including myself, graduate with a degree and find they are not happy working in that field and have to do other things.
It is more important to identify the strengths of the particluar DD/DS and enocurage thier development in that area. Going to academic schools does not guarantee future success in life.
In terms of payment, a lot of people I know pay out of their income and yes have to give up on having 3/4 holidays a year.
Its hard work and its a lot of discipline, you can start a saving plans now that can help towards the costs. When you break down expenditure monthly, its amazing how much goes into things that are not really needed. little drops of water makes a might ocean, so all those little crumps can add up towards the indie fees.

[Giulio]

Assuming that we are talking about the London/Surrey Grammar schools then yes it is easier to get into the local independents but only because of the sheer volume applying for the grammar.

WFG, yep, you got it.

Most of these independents are still selective but quite frankly I find less selective schools have far better teaching and are more rounded than many selective independent schools.

could you add to this? do you mean some indies are too much exam-results focused? what kind of better teaching?

[Giulio]

... so all those little crumps can add up towards the indie fees.

thanks blessedmum, so, second working parent and cut down on discretional spending, did it in your case.
that could work for us, the tradeoff being that DP at home has value, and holidays and extras (e.g. clubs) also add to family and child formation

also you are right, I should also consider the non-academic aspects an indie might add

[Waiting_For_Godot]

I always looked for the most selective schools for my DC believing that it was best to be with academically like-minded peers, but my experience has been that many are very prescriptive and have a set way of running things, with little flexibility. One of my DC is now in a very unselective school (a decision I worried about) but they bend over backwards to enrich every pupil. Nothing is ever too much trouble, and they really try and build on individual strengths. The teachers have to cater for a wide ability and imo are more dynamic and intuitive. My youngest, who is bright, was always in his siblings shadow but now he is one of the top at his current school (would have been middling in a selective school) and this has given him the confidence in his abilities. Not only is he highly achieveing in areas where there were perceived learning difficulties but his behaviour and maturity have dramatically increased because he is valued and in certain areas his peers even look up to him.

In some selective schools he would be ten a penny and not stand out and would still have a sense of inadequacy.

If DD does not get into GS and is feeling down about her academic abilities then she may gain much confidence at a less selective school if she is top of the pile. Just because a school is less selective does not mean that the curriculum is not to as high a standard as a selective school. The bright ones are valued and nutured and in my experience extended more than had they been at a selective school because it is less prescriptive.

[Amber]

We have experience of both, and have tried to take decisions which suited our DC. Our DD was regarded as 'GS material' (how I hate that term) but we decided quite quickly that none of the options here would have suited her: she would have hated an all-girls' school; and refused to sit for the super-super-selective as all the people she knew who were applying were those she didn't get on with (the really 'popular' girls in her year). So we chose a particular indie because we knew she needed good pastoral care above all, and would thrive if she was happy. So maybe that is something to think about - how well your child would cope in a high-performing GS, with the attendant pressure and feeling that you are maybe not as good as others. Even 'bad' schools have good elements and often will move heaven and earth to ensure that their brighter pupils do well - if you are one of just a few bright ones then often you will get the best opportunities to stretch yourself. So, to try and answer the OP's point - we just decided it was our biggest priority and we budgeted for it. It has been worth every penny and we have not once regretted our decision not to enter DD for GS - she is happy and doing exceptionally well academically.

For DS1 it was different and we really fell in love with one of the GSs (though not another one, which made us both uncomfortable - again, it boils down to where you can see your own child thriving, and we will look at all options again for DS2, who is very different. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that you have to 'do the same for all of them' - unless it so happens that your children are all the same). He didn't get in, and because he has been awarded a substantial academic scholarship, he will be going indie too. I admit that I have more trepidation this time, as we don't feel he really needs the extra care which we really believe indie can provide; but it is our best alternative at this stage and we do love the school. Our back-up option is a comprehensive which is very big, but has an excellent reputation - we think he would probably do well there too.

In short, I think that indies may offer something extra on the 'all-round person' aspect - I can't find the words really; it doesn't mean sporting or music facilities, but a care taken to keep developing all aspects of a child's personality. Many schools do this anyway, and many children can and do access these things in GS. But I am pretty sure my DD would not have done so; and I do think there are children who find school tricky at the best of times and if their parents are fortunate enough to consider indie, it might save some unhappiness. I think my own DD would probably be home educated if she were not at indie, and there are others like her. It does mean some sacrifices, but I think it would be much worse for us if she were unhappy at school - no amount of swanky hardware or posh holidays can compensate for that. My perception, which could be entirely wrong as I do not have any direct experience of a child in GS (though I have taught several children who attend them) is that the primary focus is always on academic achievement; whereas I think the emphasis in an indie is shifted slightly away from that and more towards the personality.

Hard choices, and we can never run a controlled experiment to find out what would happen if we did it another way. We are lucky to have education for all, and maybe the provision of choice actually spoils us and devalues the system in a way which doesn't happen in some other societies.


Good luck with your choices: in the end it is your money and how you choose to spend it is your business. Beware though: for like GS, everyone will have a view on whether or not you should have sent your child to indie, and will not be afraid to tell you!
I have just re-read the post above (WFG) and agree very much with the point about not-very-selective schools - they really do nurture what they get, and this might be why I think indies/small comps/maybe even large comps can be better for less confident children than GS, where they could easily feel inadequate.