Inde or Grammer

[Rob Clark]

the selection procedures are very different

Another vote here in support of Amber's contention. Regular posters may know that we have one at GS and one not, and yet most people who know them think the one who isn't at GS is the brighter of the two - even the one at GS thinks this

If GS entry was decided by SATs, school work, school report, interview or extracurricular activities, our younger one would have breezed it, and indies can, of course, take any or all of these into account according to preference.

I guess if the 11+ was completely unfit for purpose the GS would have clamoured for a change in entrance exams, but it most certainly isn't the be-all and end-all in terms of intelligence.

[Milla]

if you can afford it and your heart tells you it's right, then go for it. I can't comment on the individual qualities of schools in your area but you seem drawn to the indie and you don't want to think you gave second best. Just be sure that the indie really is best and that you're not clouded by false assumptions.

For most of us, I'd say that we are dictated by a choice which diminishes with finances. I know that this is a generalisation that might be leaped on but what I mean is:
you can either afford indie or you can't (right, so that's me out)
or you can afford it but at a cost (that's you?).
Then you get the ones who don't have to afford it (sometimes because they can't afford it but have re-written the facts) this is also me because my boys got grammars with which I was happy, nay, ecstatic.
Then there are those who suddenly knock grammars (maybe their child who "was supposed to" get in didn't). Such a thing can rapidly alter your view. Those people who can fill in with indie fees in such a situation are very lucky.
Your child gets a bursary. (Yippee, presumably.)
So no opinion is innocent, there's generally a back story.

As for the "very creative ways to stretch and challenge pupils and boost their results" which Amber mentions, another way of looking at this could be called "small classes, fantastic facilities and, sometimes, spoon-feeding." This stretching and challenging might be perceived from the outside as over-supplementing just as a GS-knocker might eye the admissions process with extra cynicism. Someone I know who didn't pass for the local girls' grammar, then went to a good local indie, emerged bristling with As and A*s in GCSEs (good for her, nice girl) sufficient to allow her to join the local super-selective for 6th form where she found it very, very hard since she was so used to DC doing everything for her: heavy hand-holding and intense guiding, whereas at GS she felt almost stranded, very much unused to having to think for herself so, and initially she struggled.

And as for GS reject - needn't be a problem. An "on the day" thing. I'm an Oxbridge reject. Not bitter. Really.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

Are you dissin' my son's school Milla?

[solimum]

Some interesting observations among my DD's friends and siblings, who scattered to various destinations for 6th form.

My DD (stayed at her local comp for A levels) has a few "free" periods, when she usually has to be in school (unless last lesson when they can leave early) and can choose whether to work in the common room, chat to friends, make a snack, read in the library etc. She has been trying to get homework done during these periods so far, although the work doesn't always get distributed at convenient times relative to the free slots. Still, she does try to think about it and plan ahead

A friend who has moved to a nearby independent boys school is apparently enjoying it, but has a much more strict regime in "free" periods, involving supervised silent working in a classroom

DS2 travelled to a more distant boys grammar school for 6th form, where free periods were relatively relaxed (although he did so many A levels he didn't really have many..!)

Conversely when DS1 attended the 6th form college a few years ago, he only had to attend for timetabled lessons and could come and go as he pleased (buses permitting). "Free" periods could therefore be spent at home catching up with sleep... (say no more)

Now I know of children that have succeeded well at A level in all these settings. But at some point, any who are going to succeed at university and beyond will need to learn to manage their time effectively and take some responsibility for planning and getting work done without someone standing over them with a big (metaphorical) stick.

Food for thought anyway

[Amber]

One thing (I think the only unpleasant thing) I have noticed about this forum is that it seems OK to have open season against independent schools and comprehensives, and people who use them for whatever reason are forever having to defend themselves against their position. There is virtually no criticism on here of Grammar schools (though plenty of criticism of the means by which they are entered) - indeed I think I would be afraid to make any kind of negative remark about a GS for fear of bringing down a stampede on my head. Yet as someone whose kids are in indie, I am expected to just sit here and not respond to the assertion that they are being 'spoon fed', indulged with extra teaching and beautiful facilities, and would not have succeeded in a less favoured environment. Yes, I entered my DS for GS tests, naively and without full awareness of what was really required to get him in. This doesn't mean I have bought into the political and social background to the 11+ any more than buying certain cosmetics makes you a vivisectionist. I have in no way altered my general view that selective education is wrong based on his experiences - I didn't agree with it before and I don't agree with it now, but that will not stop me from entering my DS2 for the stupid hoop-jumping test if I think it will get him to a school where he will be happier than anywhere else. I completely resent the idea that my children will not be able to function in the 'real world', whatever that is, because they have been to an independent school (after a pretty rough primary, as it happens). And if anyone thinks that children from a GS are any better prepared for the cruel realities of some of the seedier sides of life they are deluding themselves.

Rarely have I felt angry posting on here, but I am sick of side-swipes at independent schooling and those of us using it; and particularly resentful of the fact that I feel forced to defend my children against the assertion, or implication, that they are less intelligent, less able to think independently and less able to face the world than children at the GS round the corner.

For the record, if anyone is still reading, the sixth formers at DD's school seem to loaf around drinking coffee and texting in their free periods if that is what they choose; they can also go off site and there is definitely no sitting in silence being supervised while they work.

[Milla]

One thing (I think the only unpleasant thing) I have noticed about this forum is that it seems OK to have open season against independent schools and comprehensives, and people who use them for whatever reason are forever having to defend themselves against their position. There is virtually no criticism on here of Grammar schools

Hmmm, not sure about this. I think people are respectful towards comprehensives because there is not the elitism thing. Sure indies get knocked, but so, too, do GSs. You won't notice the latter so much because your antennae aren't tuned to it. I notice the snipes against GS, you notice the ones against indies. Simple as that.

[Amber]

One thing (I think the only unpleasant thing) I have noticed about this forum is that it seems OK to have open season against independent schools and comprehensives, and people who use them for whatever reason are forever having to defend themselves against their position. There is virtually no criticism on here of Grammar schools

Hmmm, not sure about this. I think people are respectful towards comprehensives because there is not the elitism thing. Sure indies get knocked, but so, too, do GSs. You won't notice the latter so much because your antennae aren't tuned to it. I notice the snipes against GS, you notice the ones against indies. Simple as that.

I think not, on both counts (plenty of refs to 'packing them off to the local sink comp'). But then again, I suppose it is a forum primarily designed to help people get their children into grammar schools.
Maybe I should go and look for somewhere else to hang out.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

My rather provactive post has just been removed!

[Milla]

NO!! What did you say! Why would it be removed??!?!
And Amber, don't get all cross and silly!

[Snowdrops]

I agree with Milla's last post!

To be fair the post which irked Amber, is rather provocative - perhaps it doesn't mean to be quite so?

I too want to know what Tips said, I'm shocked she'd have something removed