How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
-
Thingsbehindthesun
- Posts: 463
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:25 pm
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
DAO= The Dame Alice Owen school in Hertfordshire.Dolcelatte wrote:BarnetDad well done on your DD getting her offers. I have been trying to work out which school DAO is - can you tell me?!
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
Some very good points there - will comment more this evening!
I think DD1 is slightly surprised - she only got an offer at DAO via the waiting list, yet she's a high-flyer at HBS.... Go figure...
I think DD1 is slightly surprised - she only got an offer at DAO via the waiting list, yet she's a high-flyer at HBS.... Go figure...
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
Hi, In the context of some thoughts about NLCS in this and some other threads, I have some observations from the coffee afternoon at NLCS on 28th Feb for DD's & parents' offered place this year (in the knowledge that two odd hours of interaction is unlikely to yield definitive information)
1. Prima facie, we did not have too much evidence to feel that it is a "mean, well oiled machine" - we had opportunity to talk to quite a few girls there (on a school working day) and they all seemed to be in love with their school. Seemed a happy and engaged lot. The only small sense we found was a member of the senior staff who had a bit of "take it or leave it" attitude during a one-on-one interaction.
2. Not a lot of parents we interacted with (I reckon there were 60-70) seemed "obnoxious". Most of them seemed like the lot who were concerned about ensuring high standards of well rounded education for their DCs.
3. Many existing girls/parents do not use "£1500 a year coach system" (of course it depends on travel options available from respective residences). But the school does have a good shuttle system from nearby public transport hubs (underground tube stations). Buses are a frequently used option.
4. Lastly, many of the parents who turned up certainly did not seem "wealthy" - but majority seemed like in the middle of the wealth spectrum.
(Disclaimer again - two hours are difficult to get definitive information)
All in all, this (and a previous visit) has actually made making the choice more difficult - over a couple of other options which we and DD were earlier leaning towards. Wishing all the parents and their DCs good luck in getting the school they wish for.
1. Prima facie, we did not have too much evidence to feel that it is a "mean, well oiled machine" - we had opportunity to talk to quite a few girls there (on a school working day) and they all seemed to be in love with their school. Seemed a happy and engaged lot. The only small sense we found was a member of the senior staff who had a bit of "take it or leave it" attitude during a one-on-one interaction.
2. Not a lot of parents we interacted with (I reckon there were 60-70) seemed "obnoxious". Most of them seemed like the lot who were concerned about ensuring high standards of well rounded education for their DCs.
3. Many existing girls/parents do not use "£1500 a year coach system" (of course it depends on travel options available from respective residences). But the school does have a good shuttle system from nearby public transport hubs (underground tube stations). Buses are a frequently used option.
4. Lastly, many of the parents who turned up certainly did not seem "wealthy" - but majority seemed like in the middle of the wealth spectrum.
(Disclaimer again - two hours are difficult to get definitive information)
All in all, this (and a previous visit) has actually made making the choice more difficult - over a couple of other options which we and DD were earlier leaning towards. Wishing all the parents and their DCs good luck in getting the school they wish for.
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
BarnetDad, well done to your DD!
Why do you think there will be more 'obnoxious parents' at NLCS ? My DS goes to a Herts independent and we haven't come across any. In fact, there were many more 'obnoxious parents' at his state primary!
Also, the issue of wealth. In DS's school there are a few very wealthy families but they are the exception rather than the rule. In fact there will probably be some wealthy families at DAO as they don't have fees to pay! Lots of people sacrifice a lot to send their DC to an independent school, cutting back on things like holidays and new cars. And of course there will be children with bursaries and scholarships whose parents wouldn't have been able to afford to send them without assistance.
Why do you think there will be more 'obnoxious parents' at NLCS ? My DS goes to a Herts independent and we haven't come across any. In fact, there were many more 'obnoxious parents' at his state primary!
Also, the issue of wealth. In DS's school there are a few very wealthy families but they are the exception rather than the rule. In fact there will probably be some wealthy families at DAO as they don't have fees to pay! Lots of people sacrifice a lot to send their DC to an independent school, cutting back on things like holidays and new cars. And of course there will be children with bursaries and scholarships whose parents wouldn't have been able to afford to send them without assistance.
-
another mother
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:46 pm
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
I agree Zorro. I'd third the idea that you are wrong to think that you will find more obnoxious parents at NLCS than at DAO - all schools are a mix and probably all of them have the odd dodgy set of parents - but on the other hand you don't see much of them anyway as time goes on. In our experience, your girls will find peers who are like them - at state or indies.
I also agree with workhard, NL prides itself on the level of teaching. My best friend's daughter is soon to finish there - and it's very clear that's she has had great teaching - not every single class perhaps, but no school achieves that. The academic rigour is exceptionally high - that's why they do so well at Oxbridge interview - and inevitably the peer group, as work hard says, is likely to be very ambitious indeed. Whether you want that or not is one thing, but I do think that makes the school different to DAO - where we also know lots of lovely sixth formers.
They are both good schools - but the experience is as work hard said, quite different.
The final point is that going simply on the size of the year groups, there will be many more opportunites for drama, music, sport etc in a smaller school. Friend at NLCS has done masses of drama and music and some sport though not latterly. Our DAO friends - maybe because from London and I know you are much nearer - have done very little.
Good luck with the choice - both good, but different!!
I also agree with workhard, NL prides itself on the level of teaching. My best friend's daughter is soon to finish there - and it's very clear that's she has had great teaching - not every single class perhaps, but no school achieves that. The academic rigour is exceptionally high - that's why they do so well at Oxbridge interview - and inevitably the peer group, as work hard says, is likely to be very ambitious indeed. Whether you want that or not is one thing, but I do think that makes the school different to DAO - where we also know lots of lovely sixth formers.
They are both good schools - but the experience is as work hard said, quite different.
The final point is that going simply on the size of the year groups, there will be many more opportunites for drama, music, sport etc in a smaller school. Friend at NLCS has done masses of drama and music and some sport though not latterly. Our DAO friends - maybe because from London and I know you are much nearer - have done very little.
Good luck with the choice - both good, but different!!
-
Dolcelatte
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
A friend of mine who has a year 10 DD mentioned that if you're looking at the cost of an independent school you should remember to factor in the extras - ie: school coach, music lessons and school trips abroad (some even to exotic locations) which can be very costly.
-
ConcernedDad
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:43 pm
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
Totally agree! And it is not an easy decision to make considering the current situation of the economy! 
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
@workhard - Just going through your message...
Yes, I was surprised. I had her down as having had about a 25% chance.
I agree that she'd be happy at either. We know she's a more robust character than DD1.
What happened with Channing? Good question. I guess that we were favouring that for the case in which DD would be at the bottom of the class at NLCS - the nurturing environment seemed very appealing...
My mate Olly has not been on the blower today, as far as I know.
While I agree with your grouping to an extent, it doesn't necessarily follow that one should choose between the groups before choosing within them. I suspect I have slightly more respect for DAO than you do!
We know others who've had negative experiences at HBS. Not show-stoppers, by any means, and we're still confident it was the right decision for DD1.
"it is the culture of a school which counts and not any pastoral system or resource" - well, I'm not so sure - I think that the pastoral system is part of the culture. Talking to Pastoral head at NLCS, I got a strong impression that she was aware of the problem of psychological bullying and knew how to handle it, whereas head of KS3 at HBS is in denial from what I've experienced and heard secondhand. I think this reflects a cultural difference (partly forced by lack of resources in HBS).
"NLCS is a clinical machine and very good at it." - this has been my impression in the past, but I'm beginning to move away from that view.
"we found HBS much more human" - so did we, although lack of resources limit the benefit.
"a younger sibling is generally smarter about relationships" - certainly true here!
I would still contend (and I've bored people here enough with it) that HBS are probably more "sink or swim" than NLCS. This is partly a natural result of larger class sizes. I think that stragglers/lazy girls would be picked up quicker by NLCS (although the exam system is mostly blind to this!)
"So I hope you get the HBS offer" - looks like there isn't one, but thanks for the thought!
"Your money will buy you a bit of something at Uni entrance time, but your DD2 may not need it" - quite possibly true (and, again, in line with my oft-stated belief that good schools have very little effect on outcome).
"I really believe that a uniformly bright or brighter peer group is a great gift to grow up with and should not be underestimated." - ok, well I'm going to underestimate it, then! I was the product of a comprehensive (now a "City Academy") and feel that the variety of people there was good. It would have been nice to have had more competition as there were a couple of others who were at the same level as myself.
A good debate, how ironic that we've left it so late! I suppose one doesn't want to make overly optimistic assumptions....
Yes, I was surprised. I had her down as having had about a 25% chance.
I agree that she'd be happy at either. We know she's a more robust character than DD1.
What happened with Channing? Good question. I guess that we were favouring that for the case in which DD would be at the bottom of the class at NLCS - the nurturing environment seemed very appealing...
My mate Olly has not been on the blower today, as far as I know.
While I agree with your grouping to an extent, it doesn't necessarily follow that one should choose between the groups before choosing within them. I suspect I have slightly more respect for DAO than you do!
We know others who've had negative experiences at HBS. Not show-stoppers, by any means, and we're still confident it was the right decision for DD1.
"it is the culture of a school which counts and not any pastoral system or resource" - well, I'm not so sure - I think that the pastoral system is part of the culture. Talking to Pastoral head at NLCS, I got a strong impression that she was aware of the problem of psychological bullying and knew how to handle it, whereas head of KS3 at HBS is in denial from what I've experienced and heard secondhand. I think this reflects a cultural difference (partly forced by lack of resources in HBS).
"NLCS is a clinical machine and very good at it." - this has been my impression in the past, but I'm beginning to move away from that view.
"we found HBS much more human" - so did we, although lack of resources limit the benefit.
"a younger sibling is generally smarter about relationships" - certainly true here!
I would still contend (and I've bored people here enough with it) that HBS are probably more "sink or swim" than NLCS. This is partly a natural result of larger class sizes. I think that stragglers/lazy girls would be picked up quicker by NLCS (although the exam system is mostly blind to this!)
"So I hope you get the HBS offer" - looks like there isn't one, but thanks for the thought!
"Your money will buy you a bit of something at Uni entrance time, but your DD2 may not need it" - quite possibly true (and, again, in line with my oft-stated belief that good schools have very little effect on outcome).
"I really believe that a uniformly bright or brighter peer group is a great gift to grow up with and should not be underestimated." - ok, well I'm going to underestimate it, then! I was the product of a comprehensive (now a "City Academy") and feel that the variety of people there was good. It would have been nice to have had more competition as there were a couple of others who were at the same level as myself.
A good debate, how ironic that we've left it so late! I suppose one doesn't want to make overly optimistic assumptions....
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
Oh, a couple of people have picked me up on the "obnoxious parents" comment. It seems to be that people who send their children to independent schools do have a tendency towards characteristics that I find unappealing - and I feel that I'm looking in a mirror to an extent here! It's a massive generalisation, but the parents at HBS that I've met seem "nicer" than those at the independent primary school that our daughters have been to. But all generalisations are false, aren't they! 
-
Caroline1852
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:24 am
Re: How to choose between NLCS and DAO (unfortunately!)
From the point of view of someone at the other end of school life (eldest just gone to uni to read medicine and second son about to sit GCSEs), I would opt for DAO and stand ready to supplement with 1:1 tutoring as necessary.
Well done you daughter. She did very well to be offered both those schools.
Well done you daughter. She did very well to be offered both those schools.
