Good state school v indy

[hermanmunster]

It obviously helps in certain fields .. but does it help to the tune of about 150K for a boarding school these days?

FWIW Probably doesn't help at all in medicine - the med school you go to probably has more contact / influence. Once they get to the stage of applying for higher / specialist training (the crucial application these days) it is all what you have done since qualifying etc.

I have to disagree! There are certain specialties, hospitals and GP practices that are considered more desirable. The % of Indy educated doctors at these institutions is higher than the % of Indy medical students. As most medical students have a similar accademic record, I would suggest that some sort of filtering has occurred and as there are a disproportionate % of Indy doctors achieving the desirable jobs, the Indy has helped in some way. The CSST is part of training, the interview for the end job is when the school comes up (usually more than 15 years after leaving the school). Of course, I have assumed that the good state and Indy have produced the same calibre of medical student.

where is the evidence for this ??? ... My school never came up after qualifying. and I have interviewed plenty of Consultants, GPs and acedemics and we wouldn't be able to comment any longer!

[Caroline1852]

It obviously helps in certain fields .. but does it help to the tune of about 150K for a boarding school these days?

FWIW Probably doesn't help at all in medicine - the med school you go to probably has more contact / influence. Once they get to the stage of applying for higher / specialist training (the crucial application these days) it is all what you have done since qualifying etc.

I have to disagree! There are certain specialties, hospitals and GP practices that are considered more desirable. The % of Indy educated doctors at these institutions is higher than the % of Indy medical students. As most medical students have a similar accademic record, I would suggest that some sort of filtering has occurred and as there are a disproportionate % of Indy doctors achieving the desirable jobs, the Indy has helped in some way. The CSST is part of training, the interview for the end job is when the school comes up (usually more than 15 years after leaving the school). Of course, I have assumed that the good state and Indy have produced the same calibre of medical student.

where is the evidence for this ??? ... My school never came up after qualifying. and I have interviewed plenty of Consultants, GPs and acedemics and we wouldn't be able to comment any longer!

Agree, Hermanmunster, I've never seen an adult's CV containing the name of his/her school. If I saw the name of a public school on an adult CV, I'd assume the author was relying on some sort of old-school leg-up by mentioning his alma mater. But then I'm a chippy grammar school girl.

Independently educated parents and ex pupils would do well to remember, 90% of the population are NOT independently educated and even if they are, only a vanishingly small number share an alma mater with YOU.

The old boys' network is an outrage against fairness. It has no place in 21st Century Britain. That party is well and truly over.

[lastminute]

Yes I'm doing my CV now and it does seem more ancient history than anything else.

But for a young graduate, it will feature highly up there and will help (or not) to paint a picture for the recruiter when selecting the pile of people to interview. It is also what else that is on the CV that counts. Here too the extra curricular activities offered by the indys can build lifelong habits and interests in sport/arts that are beneficial in adult life.

If you can help provide these extra curricular things outside school for your DC you may not need an indy.

But, and this is why indys are in business (sorry charity), they prey on the fears that stroppy teenager does not want to be dragged to orchestra/hockey/explorers and would rather idle life away in bedroom. Also guilty parent may be at work until after 6 pm so what will the state school child do from 3pm until 6pm. State schools are offering more after school hours but they are more easily opted out of and cannot compare with some of the indy offerings.

So, if the academics are similar(ish), that sounds like some very expensive after school clubs ! However for a DC it might be what is needed and for parent, guilt and fear abated, hope for a brighter future. After all compared to a bigger house, holiday etc what is more important?

How lucky to have the opportunity to choose between a good state and indy v bigger house/holiday. What is more difficult is an apparently poor performing school and no choice. Although even here there is hope, as the Sutton Trust report shows pupils do go to selective universities from the most unselective of schools.

[CPM1771]

Look what we've started !

I don't think anyone has to apologise for their background, whatever that might be, but I am not sure pretending that the world is different to how it is helps us to make progress. Remember that everyone has different experiences in this regard and that is what we are reflecting back to each other. At our fingertips, I suspect there is no more evidence that bias does not exist than it does, so challenging someone for evidence is going to work both ways. I really do think coffeemorning has a valid point here and certainly one that I see reflected in the environment I work in. I do not think we need to go much further than the make up of our current cabinet to see that coffeemorning is right. I had the quickest glance at the last few cv's that have gone accross my desk and all of them have the schools on that people attended, it seems standard that it should be there.

I doubt, in this day and age that anyone actively goes out of their way to recruit from the "top" schools, whatever one's view of that is. However if you look at most professions, particularly in the most coveted positions you see independent schooling disproportionately represented. We might not want it to be that way, or like it, but there remains truth in it.

Why that is the case is a different matter. The "old boys network" in any real sense of the word no longer really exists in a self perpetuating way. What independent schools tend to be better at (and do not shoot me for the generalisation) is engendering the kind of skills in children that are valued as you move higher up the tree. All of a sudden the networking skills, presentational ability and making the argument become altogether more important. Now that is not the privilege of private education, far from it, it just seems that people coming from that background are over-represented when it comes to possessing them. I qualify this by saying that this is by no means universally true.

I have interviewed countless young graduates and many more for more senior positions. I am never impressed by the school on the CV, although sometimes I admit that it can cause intrigue. What does strike me time after time is the confidence and general interview ability that one sees from, particularly younger recruits, who have been to what would be regarded as better public schools. My DW makes the same comment at undergraduate level when she has interviewed for medical schools.

I am afraid that is what results in what we interpret to be bias. It has nothing to do with the actual school, but everything to do with the product. When I am recruiting I take people as I find them and I will recruit whoever I find to be most impressive, all else being equal. Whereas at undergraduate level I can understand that there is argument for taking background into account when it comes to selecting the "best" students, once you are out in the real world it is "dog eat dog." You are reliant on the impression you make and the education you have had helps enormously with exactly that.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

Schools are generally always mentioned on CV's regardless of what one it is.

[Caroline1852]

Hmm. I've just done a straw poll of 6 colleagues: they all think putting your school on your CV is hilarious and have never seen it. I've emailed a lady in human remains (HR) and asked her if putting a school on a CV is de rigueur? I've yet to hear back.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

Mmmm, suppose it depends on ancient one is then!

Every CV I've come across, written or my husband has seen always has the school on it. He has told me that he'd find it odd not for the school to be written if a person had less than 15 years experience, and even then he'd be keen to know. Not from an elitist point of view but the reverse. If someone has done well despite their upbringing then he's even more impressed.

[Loopyloulou]

The "old boys network" in any real sense of the word no longer really exists in a self perpetuating way.

That's what you think .

Schools are generally always mentioned on CV's regardless of what one it is.

Yes I always thought that too, though I've spent some time this morning trying to find out which school the Bishop of Bath and Wells attended, without success . Do you think he has something to hide

[hermanmunster]

Yes I always thought that too, though I've spent some time this morning trying to find out which school the Bishop of Bath and Wells attended, without success . Do you think he has something to hide

The school of baby-eating???

[Loopyloulou]