Grammar vs indie

[Daogroupie]

We cannot possibly provide any answers to your questions until we know what area you are from and what schools you are talking about. In my area I, like Amber, am of the opinion that the state selectives are academically stronger. But in your area it could be the other way around. You need to post in your local area and get some opinions of forum members who have dc's at the schools or know other parents who have. I would recommend however that you do not assume that a school is better because you have to pay for it because in my experience this is often not the case. I work every day with a wide range of students from a wide range of prep and state schools and sometimes the strongest are from state primaries. But this might not be the case in your area. DG

[Immortal Dreams]

DG is right - there is no way we can answer your questions till we know which schools you are talking about or at least what area. In my area I feel there are many excellent indies; however, there are an equal number of less academic ones. I think indies have a reputation for being more nurturing as there tend to be smaller classes whereas grammars are more academic. It all comes down to your child and no one here can make that decision for you.

[Sally-Anne]

My guess is mods don't like these threads as they tend to keep them on their toes.

sherry ... WHAT?

___________________
Sally-Anne. Baffled of Bucks.

[hermanmunster]

My guess is mods don't like these threads as they tend to keep them on their toes.

sherry ... WHAT?

___________________
Sally-Anne. Baffled of Bucks.

Dear Baffled of Bucks

Dungeon needs cleaning

Love Dozy in the Dales

[scary mum]

I am also a parent with a DD who has attended an indie & a GS for secondary school. The indie wasn't a selective one, but produced good results at GCSE considering their intake. A level was another matter, interestingly. And the GS has been far better from a pastoral point of view.

[lefol]

DS2 attends a GS and I was initially worried about class sizes but it has not been a problem so far . The teachers respond to emails v quickly and are quite strict and therefore able to manage the classes. Most of the students also want to learn and as such disruption is kept to a minimum .

I understand class sizes for our particular grammar are smaller once they pick GCSEs and as such even more manageable . I have tried to identify stark differences between the two but cannot find much . They are also exposed to a diverse group of friends in the GS are therefore have more sense of the real world and how diverse our world is. HOWEVER, it really depends on the schools you are looking at.

[Amber]

Small class size is not related to any kind of positive outcome in education. It's counterintuitive, it's what parents the world over want, but it has no relation to attainment at all. And if you don't believe me, ask the OECD.

[Yamin151]

Small class size is not related to any kind of positive outcome in education. It's counterintuitive, it's what parents the world over want, but it has no relation to attainment at all. And if you don't believe me, ask the OECD.

Whilst I agree the evidence may not show a correlation between class size and academic outcomes, does it not, for certain individual children, offer an environment where they are less likely to 'disappear' if they don't ask for help? Or to languish along doing 'ok' because they don't ring any alarm bells, but might have done better where there are fewer pupils to check in with? This is such an individual outcome, which covers a whole range of academic abilities, that it cannot be measured except on each individuals 'added value' outcomes, which being per individual are not possible to make into any kind of statistic, as there is no comparison for each individual. Does that make sense?

[Amber]

It makes sense on an individual level but not on an empirical one. It can't be contested that parents prefer it and see it as a measure of a good school. I was just pointing out that the evidence on this issue suggests quite the reverse, namely that it has no bearing on outcomes, but of course many people passionately believe it and independent schools sell themselves on the idea that 'individual attention' will benefit a child. It is a 'common sense truth' which isn't actually true. Of course, deciding that one's own child would flourish with such attention is another matter, and every child is different. The evidence shows that investing in good teaching is the key to high attainment, as well as empowering all children to believe they have it in themselves to succeed.

Of course, all of this assumes that high attainment is the goal of education, and not all of us accept that premise.

[Yamin151]

It makes sense on an individual level but not on an empirical one. It can't be contested that parents prefer it and see it as a measure of a good school. I was just pointing out that the evidence on this issue suggests quite the reverse, namely that it has no bearing on outcomes, but of course many people passionately believe it and independent schools sell themselves on the idea that 'individual attention' will benefit a child. It is a 'common sense truth' which isn't actually true. Of course, deciding that one's own child would flourish with such attention is another matter, and every child is different. The evidence shows that investing in good teaching is the key to high attainment, as well as empowering all children to believe they have it in themselves to succeed.

Of course, all of this assumes that high attainment is the goal of education, and not all of us accept that premise.

Absolutely, think we are saying the same thing aren't we. That as an educated mass, small class size has not been shown to have nay effect, but on an individual level, a huge difference can be made to that child by a choice that suits them, if only one is given the opportunity, which sadly most of us are not!!