Your children may be rejected when applying for Oxbridge?

[Yamin151]

Absolutely! Agree to an extent that there are groups of unis that are more highlybregarded, so, in an imaginary scenario, architecture might be better from Bristol than Bounemouth, BUT, surely Architecture from Bristol not beaten in the real world by Artchitecture from Cambridge?? I know these are imaginary courses, just saying.

[Froggy]

One of my dc is currently reading English at Oxford, from a non-selective state school. His offer was AAA, which seems to be the standard for that subject, and in fact at all the other universities he applied to, although that was for the 2012 admissions round. I'd be extremely surprised if Oxford or Cambridge had routinely made lower offers to other candidates unless there were very extenuating circumstances relating to that particular individual (eg. illness of the candidate or death of a close family member, or exceptional social circumstances).

I have been involved in interviewing for admissions at a RG uni (though not Oxbridge), and I think there is a widespread misconception, stoked by populist and ill-informed media articles, that universities are being forced, by political correctness or govt pressure, to take less-able state school candidates over more-able candidates from selective schools. That is absolutely not the case, and admissions and subject tutors would be out on the barricades if they were having to do that. All admissions tutors want is to fill the limited number of available places with the students that they believe (on the basis of the limited information available) have the highest academic ability and the greatest motivation and determination to get the most out of the course.

The principle of making variable offers is simply a way of reflecting the fact that a candidate who has straight A* at GCSE in a low-performing secondary school has overcome significant barriers to achieving those grades when compared with a candidate from a superselective of private school where most of the yeargroup will get all A and A*. In the days when most applicants were interviewed, you could get a good idea at first hand which candidates were exceptional self-motivated and commited individuals, and which were bright able students who had been highly coached. Now that most universities don't interview, you have to take a broadbrush approach based on the information supplied on the UCAS form. Other things being equal, it is not unreasonable to assume that an applicant who has done outstandingly well in a poorly-performing school has the potential to be an extremely student at degree level, and it is entirely right that individual departments should have the discretion to make offers that take into account their assessment of a particular applicant's potential.

[Yamin151]

What a sensible, balanced and well informed reply. Thank you.

[Tree]

The principle of making variable offers is simply a way of reflecting the fact that a candidate who has straight A* at GCSE in a low-performing secondary school has overcome significant barriers to achieving those grades when compared with a candidate from a superselective of private school where most of the yeargroup will get all A and A*. In the days when most applicants were interviewed, you could get a good idea at first hand which candidates were exceptional self-motivated and commited individuals, and which were bright able students who had been highly coached. Now that most universities don't interview, you have to take a broadbrush approach based on the information supplied on the UCAS form. Other things being equal, it is not unreasonable to assume that an applicant who has done outstandingly well in a poorly-performing school has the potential to be an extremely student at degree level, and it is entirely right that individual departments should have the discretion to make offers that take into account their assessment of a particular applicant's potential.

Thanks Froggy this is exactly the same message we have received consistently when my DD went through her application to uni and i't clear this is happening and it is clearly common sense and it's not the same as positive discrimination.

[Catseye]

It is illegal for unis to discriminate between private and state educated children but they can use contextual data to offer variable offers for reasons outlined above

but it also disingenuous to suggest that admission tutors live in a political vacuum , there is pressure on them to increase the social mix of their intake particularly at the top unis or highly competitive courses like Medicine.

for e.g for my son the typical grades offers for computer science at Manchester are AAB - A*AA because of his privileged schooling we fully expect offers being AAA - A*AA for him , we are ready and preparing for the most likely requirements it would would be foolish to bury one's head in the sand!

[pushymother]

Pushymother, was the unconditional offer from Birmingham?

Yes

[ToadMum]

Is it possible that something has been 'lost in translation' here? According to UCAS, you can only respond to offers once you have received all of them -

Replying to your offers

You can only reply when you've received all your decisions.
If you have an unconditional offer you can select it now to confirm your place.
If your offers are conditional on exam results or other requirements, you can pick two so you have an extra one as a back-up.

So the decision as to whether the certainty of a place at one of the other universities the candidate decided to apply for means more to them that a conditional Oxbridge place should only need to be made at least a couple of months down the line from now, not before the outcome of the Oxbridge application is known.

[solimum]

It is illegal for unis to discriminate between private and state educated children but they can use contextual data to offer variable offers for reasons outlined above

but it also disingenuous to suggest that admission tutors live in a political vacuum , there is pressure on them to increase the social mix of their intake particularly at the top unis or highly competitive courses like Medicine.

for e.g for my son the typical grades offers for computer science at Manchester are AAB - A*AA because of his privileged schooling we fully expect offers being AAA - A*AA for him , we are ready and preparing for the most likely requirements it would would be foolish to bury one's head in the sand!

From my daughter's experience of applying to study Biochemistry at Manchester (state comp) they made it clear at the interview day that once they had decided to offer a place (which nearly all of those invited to interview would be ) they offer would be based on predicted grades, so my DD had an AAA offer whereas some others might have had AAB. However if they put Manchester first a certain amount of flexibility would be allowed - ie she could probably have still got in with AAB anyway. This was to encourage them to work hard enough to fulfil their maximum potential but also to encourage committed potential students rather than those who would prefer to have been somewhere else. This would in effect have made it difficult for her if she had received an Oxford offer which would also have been AAA as it would not have been viable to have Manchester as a backup. As it happened she much preferred Manchester, did not get an Oxford offer ( although she did go to interviews) and got her AAA.

[ConcernedDad]

To draw a comparison with admission criteria of top Unis across the pond, standard criteria seems to be:
- CGPA
- whether the student is in the top 10% (or 25%) of the school
- SAT scores
- Statement of Purpose
- Reference Letters
- Extracurricular Activities
- Interview
- …..

While Unis over here seem to base admission primarily on Grades, Interview, and in certain cases, scores in specialized tests (UKCAT/BMAT etc.). In my view, this alleged relaxation of grade requirement for students from non-super selective schools is no different from giving weightage to whether the student is in the top 10% of the school or not.

[Catseye]

From my daughter's experience of applying to study Biochemistry at Manchester (state comp) they made it clear at the interview day that once they had decided to offer a place (which nearly all of those invited to interview would be ) they offer would be based on predicted grades, so my DD had an AAA offer whereas some others might have had AAB. However if they put Manchester first a certain amount of flexibility would be allowed - ie she could probably have still got in with AAB anyway. This was to encourage them to work hard enough to fulfil their maximum potential but also to encourage committed potential students rather than those who would prefer to have been somewhere else. This would in effect have made it difficult for her if she had received an Oxford offer which would also have been AAA as it would not have been viable to have Manchester as a backup. As it happened she much preferred Manchester, did not get an Oxford offer ( although she did go to interviews) and got her AAA.

That's very interesting, is that for all courses at M/CR I have been informed by an acquaintance who has connections to Admission Office at The Med School that they rely heavily on contextual data when making offers( but it may only be for this ridiculously competitive course) and always try to give candidates from disadvantaged backgrounds the benefit of the doubt over those who have had the advantage from more selective schooling .