No. of girls at single gender Private schools is falling

[Amber]

The bottom line: you will need at least 7 B grades at GCSE* (including English and
Maths). We normally expect at least a grade A (A* for Further Maths) in subjects which you wish to pursue at A level.

And that is the bit which matters, legally at least. As an aside, that looks quite a low bar for entry, though of course they don't want to end up throwing out many of their own boys. The area of sixth form admissions is likely to become a bit of an issue in some areas soon, methinks.

[Yamin151]

So, I don't understand. Why does ds1's school, all boys, 84 max per year, 131 per year in sixth form, have 40 girls joining Year 12 this year? Does this not leave only a quarter of places for boys to come in?
I know those who know the school will be able to fill me in on this one, but surely it can't mean that all those girls were better with their grades than any of the boys that applied to join?
Does it mean there is a quota of girls required in 6th form? This would make it approx 30%, since about 55% of the remaining number is internal boys, this leaves a vanishingly small opportunity for ds2 to get into the school as an external applicant in Y12.

Presumably thats tough. Really irks me, the odds are stacked against him and it doesn't seem a level playing field to me.

[Amber]

So, I don't understand. Why does ds1's school, all boys, 84 max per year, 131 per year in sixth form, have 40 girls joining Year 12 this year? Does this not leave only a quarter of places for boys to come in?
I know those who know the school will be able to fill me in on this one, but surely it can't mean that all those girls were better with their grades than any of the boys that applied to join?
Does it mean there is a quota of girls required in 6th form? This would make it approx 30%, since about 55% of the remaining number is internal boys, this leaves a vanishingly small opportunity for ds2 to get into the school as an external applicant in Y12.

Presumably thats tough. Really irks me, the odds are stacked against him and it doesn't seem a level playing field to me.

But is that a quota, or is that just the number who happen to go there? I don't think they are allowed to say 'we have 40 places for girls to join in Y12'. What they can do is say 'there are 47 places for external candidates in Y12 and this is our admissions policy'. I am fairly sure they can't specify the gender of those 47 candidates, can they?

Unless it is a private school, in which case I presume they can do whatever they want.

[Yamin151]

So, I don't understand. Why does ds1's school, all boys, 84 max per year, 131 per year in sixth form, have 40 girls joining Year 12 this year? Does this not leave only a quarter of places for boys to come in?
I know those who know the school will be able to fill me in on this one, but surely it can't mean that all those girls were better with their grades than any of the boys that applied to join?
Does it mean there is a quota of girls required in 6th form? This would make it approx 30%, since about 55% of the remaining number is internal boys, this leaves a vanishingly small opportunity for ds2 to get into the school as an external applicant in Y12.

Presumably thats tough. Really irks me, the odds are stacked against him and it doesn't seem a level playing field to me.

But is that a quota, or is that just the number who happen to go there? I don't think they say 'we have 40 places for girls to join in Y12'. What they can do is say 'there are 47 places for external candidates in Y12 and this is our admissions policy'. I am fairly sure they can't specify the gender of those 47 candidates, can they?

Unless it is a private school, in which case I presume they can do whatever they want.

No, its a state grammar. I find it very hard to believe though that all those girls better than any boys who applied. I guess only wai it would make sense if there were 6 times as many girls applying as boys!

Kenyancowgirl? Can you throw any light? I've looked at the 6th form admissions pack.....doesn't answer.

FYI info though Amber, they ahve the same admission criteria for external as internal but tests in each subject you want to take at A level if you are external.

[Warks mum]

As a parent of a DD that went to Yamin151's DS's school I would guess that it's partly to do with the other schools in the area. The school has already been teaching many of the boys who would want to go to the school and have reached the required standard, however, there's the whole cohort of girls to choose from - who didn't have the option to attend in the first place!

Having been through the application process for the sixth form and understood something of the difficulties involved, I think the school goes out of its way to make sure it's as fair as possible - for both boys and girls. They were starting to get such immense numbers applying they decided to set their own tests so they could help differentiate between candidates. They were having to rely, for example, on predicted GCSE grades to make offers and turn many candidates down. It soon became apparent such predictions could be wildly incorrect and they felt the process wasn't always completely fair, hence the introduction of the tests, based on the A levels the students hope to take.

There definitely aren't any quotas!

[Warks mum]

Ah - one small clarification to my post... The places are dependent on spaces being available in particular subjects. As a result, if only a few boys want to study that subject then a girl with a lower set of GCSE grades might step in.

From our experience, the proportion of girls to boys in further maths, for example, was much lower than in modern languages, so this might make a difference to the overall acceptance rate.

[Yamin151]

As a parent of a DD that went to Yamin151's DS's school I would guess that it's partly to do with the other schools in the area. The school has already been teaching many of the boys who would want to go to the school and have reached the required standard, however, there's the whole cohort of girls to choose from - who didn't have the option to attend in the first place!

Having been through the application process for the sixth form and understood something of the difficulties involved, I think the school goes out of its way to make sure it's as fair as possible - for both boys and girls. They were starting to get such immense numbers applying they decided to set their own tests so they could help differentiate between candidates. They were having to rely, for example, on predicted GCSE grades to make offers and turn many candidates down. It soon became apparent such predictions could be wildly incorrect and they felt the process wasn't always completely fair, hence the introduction of the tests, based on the A levels the students hope to take.

There definitely aren't any quotas!

Thanks Warks Mum, and you must feel very proud of your daughter who of course got in on her own merits. I would not suggest for a moment any girl hadn't rightly earned her place. however, I am still confused as to how the number of girls who succeeded was so much higher than the boys. There must be a reason - that is not wrong, or quotas, or suggestive of any wrong doing - but nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that 5-6 x as many girls apply as boys, but at the moment that is the only way I can see this happening.

[Warks mum]

I'm not sure the numbers are that extreme in real life. The admissions document says:

"The Published Admission Number (PAN) for external students joining Year 12 in 2017 is 56, giving a planned cohort size of
140."

This suggests they are expecting 84 boys to stay on from Year 11, leaving 56 students to come in from elsewhere. In which case, you might expect 28 boys and 28 girls to join in Year 12.

In DD's year I think something like 38 girls joined, but - if I remember correctly - the total number of students went slightly above 140 and a few boys didn't continue from Year 11 so there were probably a similar number of boys joining from elsewhere. Perhaps slightly fewer, but certainly not a 5:1 ratio.

[Yamin151]

I'm not sure the numbers are that extreme in real life. The admissions document says:

"The Published Admission Number (PAN) for external students joining Year 12 in 2017 is 56, giving a planned cohort size of
140."

This suggests they are expecting 84 boys to stay on from Year 11, leaving 56 students to come in from elsewhere. In which case, you might expect 28 boys and 28 girls to join in Year 12.

In DD's year I think something like 38 girls joined, but - if I remember correctly - the total number of students went slightly above 140 and a few boys didn't continue from Year 11 so there were probably a similar number of boys joining from elsewhere. Perhaps slightly fewer, but certainly not a 5:1 ratio.

40 girls in this years cohort according to the KES document. 40 out of 56, so no, not 5 to 1, but what, 3 to 1 ish?

[Warks mum]

But that assumes all boys stay on from Year 11 (which they don't) and the school doesn't go over the published number (which it does). I think you probably need to get the answer from the school itself for this year!