Top state grammar vs top independent offer

[Guest55]

Again, I've seen lots of threads about why medicine is such a big area of application in super selective grammars and why there are often a broader range of applications for uni courses in indie schools. It's about the level of aspiration and differences that exist. Medicine is a fine career for anyone and of course it's very competitive and hard to get into. It's a secure, salaried, respectable professional career and for many at Grammars (and Independents too,not an extent) gaining a secure, salaried, respectable professional career is something that is very aspirational for the individual and their family. However, whilst a top independent school like St Pauls will have its share of medics, there will also be those going for anthropology, for art history, for subjects with far less link to a specific career - sometimes those from richer backgrounds have already got the medics in their families and the financial security to think a bit wider and broader than the professions, to areas which might be seen as luxuries or softer options, but are just different horizons and aspirations.

I grow tired of saying 'Evidence?' You make bold statements but I'd like to see facts - I see the opposite with narrower choices at Private schools.

[mad?]

I grow tired of saying 'Evidence?' You make bold statements but I'd like to see facts - I see the opposite with narrower choices at Private schools.

Evidence G55?
In our area the indies offer a wider range of A level choices which in turn leads to a wider range of courses (please don't say that is not true, we have had this conversation before and I have listed the subjects and combinations which are not available in the state sector here. I have visited the 6th forms in my area and seen the subjects they offer at A level) but that obviously may not be the case elsewhere so it is futile to make blanket statements either way.
For some parents (witness QE threads) it seems to be precisely because of this perceived focus on medicine that grammars are so highly prized. Heaven forbid that their offspring might study Art History for love and passion for a subject. Incidentally I don't think that attitude is as much about wealth as it is about valuing education for education's sake, or valuing it as a material asset. Sadly I think the prospect of £50K of student debt after a 3 year degree is enough to make anyone see it in material terms and so the benefits of anything other than a vocational education will end up in being strictly in the domain of the wealthy or feckless. What a sad world.

ETA it has just occurred to me that I have written nonsense above in that I have omitted to consider BTECs. It is fair to say that in our area the state sector offers a much wider choice if these are included Sorry.

[RedPanda]

To give more direction for expert views innow realise I should have provided names. Indies: St Paul’s and Kings. Grammars: Sutton ones and Tiffin. Look forward to reading replies from here on...

First world problems eh? I don't think you can make a 'bad' decision with these options.

I hope you get some specifics now. Obviously, don't forget to factor in travel time and your DS's preference. Good luck.

[bridge]

I grow tired of saying 'Evidence?' You make bold statements but I'd like to see facts - I see the opposite with narrower choices at Private schools.

Evidence G55?
In our area the indies offer a wider range of A level choices which in turn leads to a wider range of courses (please don't say that is not true, we have had this conversation before and I have listed the subjects and combinations which are not available in the state sector here. I have visited the 6th forms in my area and seen the subjects they offer at A level) but that obviously may not be the case elsewhere so it is futile to make blanket statements either way.
For some parents (witness QE threads) it seems to be precisely because of this perceived focus on medicine that grammars are so highly prized. Heaven forbid that their offspring might study Art History for love and passion for a subject. Incidentally I don't think that attitude is as much about wealth as it is about valuing education for education's sake, or valuing it as a material asset. Sadly I think the prospect of £50K of student debt after a 3 year degree is enough to make anyone see it in material terms and so the benefits of anything other than a vocational education will end up in being strictly in the domain of the wealthy or feckless. What a sad world.

ETA it has just occurred to me that I have written nonsense above in that I have omitted to consider BTECs. It is fair to say that in our area the state sector offers a much wider choice if these are included Sorry.

In medicine, meanwhile, Sutton Trust research says 61% of the country’s top doctors were educated at independent schools; nearly a quarter (22%) went to grammar school and the remainder to comprehensives.

[mm23292]

Have just stumbled upon this thread, and have been mulling the exact same question. We are in the process, albeit a little early, of deciding which schools to consider for our daughter beyond yr 6. We have been advised to consider academic scholarship applications going forward, as well as 11+ for grammar.
I have heard the usual argument for GS being favoured because the cohort would automatically be more academic, but given that a large proportion of GS intake around here is heavily tutored to test, I'm not sure how accurate that really is!
The statistics regarding medicine, are particularly interesting, as this was one factor which ultimately swayed a friend who's child is currently studying medicine. I have also seen some favourable statistics mentioned in relation to IB as opposed to A level in this regard.

[Bazelle]

I have not read the whole thread (11 pages). I have one child at CLS and one at a state school, not grammar but outstanding with oxbridge track, medics and vets. I am planning to move my 3rd child to the state if I have the choice. The biggest difference is about sports, only one A team, so if you are not top of your game then too bad, and ski trips by coach to Austria rather than flying to the Rockies. The education is the same, if not better in some subjects. However there is a definite feel good factor about the facilities and stunning location of CLS. And paying £250 per term in parents pay plus a voluntary monthly contribution of your choice compared to £5K plus extras is a no brainer (now that I know my child is happy and the school is good).

[purpletulip1212]

Thanks Bazelle! It is not that we have the grammar offer which we put as our top preference ( offer day in March as you know) but the offer at the top indies has jolted me into the possibility of having DC there. As of now I have rationalised based on facilities ( the grammars which we are considering also have teams A, B and C for each major sport), they have a great music department and they are very strict on discipline ( this worries me a bit because while discipline is important, some parents have made it sound like boot camp sometimes).
But it is really good to hear from you regarding CLS/ state school and that you would put your child in a state school if presented with the option. So the delta is really from the point of view of perhaps having an all rounder child who you are sure will make complete use of the facilities?

[kenyancowgirl]

The statistics regarding medicine, are particularly interesting, as this was one factor which ultimately swayed a friend who's child is currently studying medicine. I have also seen some favourable statistics mentioned in relation to IB as opposed to A level in this regard.

Could you produce these favourable statistics, please? I am genuinely interested in them as I have far from seen this - all the universities my son spoke to before taking A levels were pretty clear that they would prefer A levels to the IB as the science would be generally stronger in the A levels - I am not saying that people don't move from the IB to Medicine, just that the literature/offers and unis we spoke to seemed to prefer A levels for Medicine so I would be interested in your statistics mm23292.

[Catseye]

The statistics regarding medicine, are particularly interesting, as this was one factor which ultimately swayed a friend who's child is currently studying medicine. I have also seen some favourable statistics mentioned in relation to IB as opposed to A level in this regard.

Could you produce these favourable statistics, please? I am genuinely interested in them as I have far from seen this - all the universities my son spoke to before taking A levels were pretty clear that they would prefer A levels to the IB as the science would be generally stronger in the A levels - I am not saying that people don't move from the IB to Medicine, just that the literature/offers and unis we spoke to seemed to prefer A levels for Medicine so I would be interested in your statistics mm23292.

I too would like to see the evidence for this rather than anecdotal hearsay.

For STEM and medicine A levels are much preferred over IB qualifications.IB Students often struggle at Med School.

Mr Catseye- A clinical interviewer at Manchester University Medical School.

[isx99]

Were the scholarship offers for St Paul's Boys' sent out earlier? Anyone else wondering how the OP already knew their DS had a scholarship offer from St Paul's on Sunday, when the offer letters were only posted yesterday and were being received today.